WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.456
Council meeting open at 1 p.m. Council

00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:03.816
wishes to show its respects to the first

00:00:03.840 --> 00:00:05.815
custodians of the land on which we meet,

00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:07.576
the Ngarigo people, and pay its respects

00:00:07.600 --> 00:00:09.896
to Elders past and present. Welcome to

00:00:09.920 --> 00:00:11.896
members of the public. Please turn off

00:00:11.920 --> 00:00:13.575
mobile phones or turn into silence if

00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:15.096
you haven't already. Members of the

00:00:15.120 --> 00:00:17.416
public, please note photography or

00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:18.856
recording by any device is strictly

00:00:18.880 --> 00:00:20.216
prohibited at council meeting in

00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:21.736
accordance with council code of meeting

00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:23.495
practice unless private permission is

00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:25.576
granted by council. By attending this

00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:27.095
meeting, all persons consent to an

00:00:27.119 --> 00:00:29.335
audiovisisual live webcast and recording

00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:31.736
for the council website.

00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:33.576
I remind councilors and staff that the

00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:35.416
code of conduct applies at this meeting

00:00:35.440 --> 00:00:37.336
and members of the public must adhere to

00:00:37.360 --> 00:00:38.695
the behavior section of the code of

00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:41.096
meeting practice. Public forum speakers

00:00:41.120 --> 00:00:44.120
must ensure their address is not to

00:00:44.160 --> 00:00:46.136
misrepresent, disrespect or release any

00:00:46.160 --> 00:00:48.456
personal information about an individual

00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:50.695
without their consent. Speakers must

00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:52.616
ensure their address does not include

00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:54.616
any comments or information that may

00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:57.576
cause legal risk. Council accepts no

00:00:57.600 --> 00:00:59.656
liability for any damages that may

00:00:59.680 --> 00:01:01.656
result in disrespectful comments made by

00:01:01.680 --> 00:01:03.096
persons attending this meeting. All

00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:04.616
liability will rest on the individual

00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:06.696
who made that comment. Toilets are

00:01:06.720 --> 00:01:09.576
located  to the left here to the door

00:01:09.600 --> 00:01:11.496
up the stairs.  if we do need to

00:01:11.520 --> 00:01:13.415
evacuate, there are two exit signs in

00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:16.135
this room  please  the marshall

00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:18.135
area is in the council car park located

00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:19.415
on Commissioner street side of the

00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:22.296
building.  councilors we do have 

00:01:22.320 --> 00:01:24.775
Sue Pa here from the audit office to do

00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:27.496
a presentation on the financial audits.

00:01:27.520 --> 00:01:29.735
 Sue thank you so much for joining us

00:01:29.759 --> 00:01:32.055
today.  so I will let you can you hear

00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:32.856
us? Okay.

00:01:32.880 --> 00:01:33.576
Yes.

00:01:33.600 --> 00:01:36.600
Excellent. I'll hand it over to you.

00:01:36.960 --> 00:01:38.936
Great. Thank you very much good

00:01:38.960 --> 00:01:41.496
afternoon Mayor councilors and council

00:01:41.520 --> 00:01:43.816
executive. Thank you very much for

00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:46.055
giving me the opportunity to present our

00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:48.216
report on the conduct of the audit for

00:01:48.240 --> 00:01:50.775
30 June 2025.

00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:53.735
 so you're sharing you can see the

00:01:53.759 --> 00:01:55.095
presentation on screen.

00:01:55.119 --> 00:01:55.735
Yes, we can.

00:01:55.759 --> 00:01:57.976
Yes okay  if we can go to the

00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:00.455
next slide then please.

00:02:00.479 --> 00:02:02.536
 so my name is Sue Pritchard and I'm

00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:04.936
the director of financial audit for the

00:02:04.960 --> 00:02:07.016
audit office. So I am responsible for

00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.496
signing off on the financial statements

00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:12.520
um of Snowy Monero on the audit report

00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:15.016
um under the delegation of the auditor

00:02:15.040 --> 00:02:18.040
general of New South Wales. Um so this

00:02:18.160 --> 00:02:20.855
afternoon um I will run through  the

00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.879
audit work program of the audit office

00:02:24.480 --> 00:02:26.935
um a report on the conduct of the audit

00:02:26.959 --> 00:02:29.416
going through the financial results and

00:02:29.440 --> 00:02:30.935
analysis.

00:02:30.959 --> 00:02:33.016
um also what will be included in our

00:02:33.040 --> 00:02:35.656
local government report to parliament

00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:37.256
and then there will be an opportunity

00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:40.215
for questions and answers at the end.

00:02:40.239 --> 00:02:43.239
Thank you.

00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:46.776
 thank you. You can may also skip to

00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:49.416
the next slide. Thank you.  so in

00:02:49.440 --> 00:02:51.656
terms of our audit work program, so we

00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:53.656
have issued the audit work program from

00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:56.680
2025 to 2028. Um the key themes that we

00:02:57.920 --> 00:03:00.136
will be picking up across the program

00:03:00.160 --> 00:03:02.776
include efficiency and the optimal use

00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.575
of public resources um grants

00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:07.176
administration,

00:03:07.200 --> 00:03:09.575
the management and administration of

00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.599
major capital projects um and also

00:03:12.720 --> 00:03:15.575
looking at any write offs um of capital

00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:17.176
projects,

00:03:17.200 --> 00:03:19.736
climate related risks and opportunities.

00:03:19.760 --> 00:03:21.816
Um so you'd be aware that the state

00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:24.616
agencies um have already started um

00:03:24.640 --> 00:03:26.696
having to prepare financial disclosures

00:03:26.720 --> 00:03:28.616
around climate related risks and

00:03:28.640 --> 00:03:31.096
opportunities. So we will be also

00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:34.120
picking up um that for the local council

00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:36.855
areas um even though those requirements

00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:39.575
have not yet come in. Um and also

00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:42.599
looking at First Nations communities.

00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:45.656
Next slide. Um so the planned

00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:47.416
performance audits from our performance

00:03:47.440 --> 00:03:50.376
area they've already commenced a um an

00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:52.696
audit into the long-term financial

00:03:52.720 --> 00:03:55.016
planning of can councils and a number of

00:03:55.040 --> 00:03:57.415
councils have been selected um as part

00:03:57.439 --> 00:03:59.816
of that performance audit.  Snow

00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:02.056
Monero was not one of them and that will

00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:04.775
be looking at um a strategic approach to

00:04:04.799 --> 00:04:07.096
forecasting and managing finances over

00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:10.120
an extended period of time.

00:04:10.720 --> 00:04:12.376
 there will also be a performance

00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:15.016
audit into ARICS and the effectiveness

00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:18.040
of those and monitoring of IPNR

00:04:18.799 --> 00:04:20.215
compliance. So that's being the

00:04:20.239 --> 00:04:22.055
integrated planning and reporting

00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:25.079
compliance framework.

00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.360
Next slide please.

00:04:28.479 --> 00:04:30.615
 we also have performance audits on

00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:32.776
the forward plan for looking at major

00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:35.656
capital projects. So the oversight of

00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.455
large capital projects from councils or

00:04:38.479 --> 00:04:40.615
also councils in managing a single

00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:43.639
project  climate risk and adaptation

00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:47.160
um and also waste management.

00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:52.455
Um every year we produce a local

00:04:52.479 --> 00:04:54.615
government sector report that gets

00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:56.696
tabled to parliament. Um and that

00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:59.336
includes the outcomes of all of our 30

00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:02.360
June 25 um financial audits. So it will

00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.336
include um where there has been errors,

00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:07.175
where there has been prior period

00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:09.976
errors, um whether there has been any

00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:13.000
qualifications of financials. Um so

00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:15.015
there will be information included

00:05:15.039 --> 00:05:17.816
around that. Those reports will also

00:05:17.840 --> 00:05:20.776
include um a section on on financial

00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:22.455
sustainability

00:05:22.479 --> 00:05:24.216
and looking at the long-term fiscal

00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:26.776
health in the council area.

00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:28.776
We have selected some special topics

00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.800
being IT, cyber security and artificial

00:05:32.080 --> 00:05:33.576
intelligent

00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:36.600
intelligence. So the findings from those

00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:40.360
um will be shown in our local government

00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.496
sector report on a thematic basis. But

00:05:43.520 --> 00:05:45.816
anything that's specifically related to

00:05:45.840 --> 00:05:48.776
snow manaro has been included within the

00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:50.856
management letter to management um on

00:05:50.880 --> 00:05:53.496
those particular areas.

00:05:53.520 --> 00:05:56.136
Um there will also be a focus area on

00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:59.015
major projects and also areas of

00:05:59.039 --> 00:06:01.416
internal control and governance um that

00:06:01.440 --> 00:06:03.496
we found thematically across all of our

00:06:03.520 --> 00:06:06.295
council audits. Um and so included in

00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:07.895
those reports will be some

00:06:07.919 --> 00:06:10.919
recommendations for councils to  go

00:06:11.280 --> 00:06:13.656
forward and think about. So I would 

00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:15.976
highly suggest that um you give that one

00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:18.455
a read when that comes out.

00:06:18.479 --> 00:06:21.015
Next slide. Thank you.

00:06:21.039 --> 00:06:23.015
So we'll then move on to the report on

00:06:23.039 --> 00:06:24.856
the conduct of the audit. So this

00:06:24.880 --> 00:06:27.880
contains um financial information um

00:06:28.080 --> 00:06:31.080
about Snowy Monero in particular. So the

00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:33.576
audit opinion on the audit was an

00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:35.895
unqualified opinion meaning that there

00:06:35.919 --> 00:06:38.696
was no material misstatement either due

00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:41.175
to fraud or error from the financial

00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:42.856
statements.

00:06:42.880 --> 00:06:45.576
 next slide please.

00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.976
Um in terms of the income statement so

00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:49.976
we note that rates and annual charges

00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:52.936
revenue increased by 3.7 million being

00:06:52.960 --> 00:06:55.960
about 9%. Um and that was mainly due to

00:06:56.080 --> 00:06:59.080
the special rate variation increase. The

00:06:59.280 --> 00:07:01.496
grants and contributions provided for

00:07:01.520 --> 00:07:04.376
operating purposes decreased by 6.9

00:07:04.400 --> 00:07:06.776
million.  there was a decrease in the

00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:09.416
financial assistance grant of 2.7

00:07:09.440 --> 00:07:11.496
million and that is really just a timing

00:07:11.520 --> 00:07:14.136
difference um in between the financial

00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.096
years and also a decrease in the roads

00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:20.120
to recovery funding the grants and

00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:22.056
contributions provided for capital

00:07:22.080 --> 00:07:24.696
purposes are decreased minorally by

00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:27.720
600,000.

00:07:27.840 --> 00:07:30.840
Next slide. Um in terms of the operating

00:07:30.880 --> 00:07:33.735
result um so this is the result that

00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:35.575
measures the profitability from

00:07:35.599 --> 00:07:38.295
operations or how much revenue exceeds

00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:39.816
expenses.

00:07:39.840 --> 00:07:42.840
Um so for this year the result um was 

00:07:45.520 --> 00:07:48.455
32.5 million lower than in the previous

00:07:48.479 --> 00:07:50.936
year and that was predominantly driven

00:07:50.960 --> 00:07:53.960
by two um large items. The one being a

00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.160
net loss from disposal of assets of 14.4

00:07:57.599 --> 00:07:59.816
4 million and that was due to the write

00:07:59.840 --> 00:08:02.615
off of some assets that were found um

00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.639
that related to private or crown roads

00:08:06.400 --> 00:08:09.400
and also material and services expense

00:08:09.520 --> 00:08:12.455
which increased by 12.8 million mainly

00:08:12.479 --> 00:08:15.479
due to um the gifting of the Kuma

00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:17.656
regional sports hub to department of

00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:20.680
education.

00:08:21.919 --> 00:08:24.295
We then move on to the unrestricted

00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:26.696
current ratio. So this measures the

00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:28.936
council's ability to pay short-term

00:08:28.960 --> 00:08:31.960
obligations as they fall due.  so you

00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:35.080
can see that ratio has improved.

00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:38.200
Um so at 30 June 25 and this is at a

00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.255
point in time the unrestricted current

00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:44.279
assets are 4.9 times the standard

00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:47.720
current liabilities.

00:08:50.800 --> 00:08:53.800
Thank you.

00:08:54.560 --> 00:08:57.016
So in terms of the cash and investments

00:08:57.040 --> 00:08:59.336
overview, so we look at the cash and

00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:01.336
then  look at the external

00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.736
restrictions um which means that the

00:09:03.760 --> 00:09:05.896
cash can only be used for specific

00:09:05.920 --> 00:09:08.375
purposes and then there are also some

00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:10.776
internal allocations which get

00:09:10.800 --> 00:09:13.016
determined by council policies or

00:09:13.040 --> 00:09:16.040
decisions. Um so in terms of  the

00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.656
external restrictions  they made up

00:09:19.680 --> 00:09:22.680
68% of the total cashion investments and

00:09:22.959 --> 00:09:25.959
internal allocations 29%.

00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:29.016
Next slide please.

00:09:29.040 --> 00:09:31.896
Um and for those  restricted and

00:09:31.920 --> 00:09:34.616
allocated cash um the bulk of those

00:09:34.640 --> 00:09:37.640
related to developer contributions the

00:09:37.839 --> 00:09:40.839
water fund and the sewer fund.

00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:44.296
Thank you.

00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:46.776
 then in terms of council liquidity,

00:09:46.800 --> 00:09:48.536
so this is the ability to meet

00:09:48.560 --> 00:09:50.696
short-term financial obligations

00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:53.495
effectively. Um so again, this is a

00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:56.519
point in time ratio. So at 30 June 2025,

00:09:58.160 --> 00:10:01.160
um there were 4.2 months cover um

00:10:01.760 --> 00:10:03.976
slightly down from the previous year of

00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:07.000
5.7 months cover.

00:10:08.880 --> 00:10:11.880
We then move on to um capital. Um so

00:10:12.640 --> 00:10:15.096
there we can see the capital expenditure

00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:17.896
by asset class. Um and you can see there

00:10:17.920 --> 00:10:20.616
was a significant investment in capital

00:10:20.640 --> 00:10:23.640
work in progress of 32.3 million. Um so

00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:27.255
 during the year the council purchased

00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:30.279
and renewed um 43.8 million of um IPNE

00:10:31.920 --> 00:10:34.920
during that year um with 32 million for

00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:38.136
capital work in progress and then the

00:10:38.160 --> 00:10:41.160
next being other assets and roads.

00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:45.336
Thank you. Um but happy to take any

00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.416
questions on the audit.

00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:48.856
Thank you so much. Councilors, do we

00:10:48.880 --> 00:10:51.096
have any questions? Councelor Rose.

00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:54.120
Um thanks so much for the overview, Miss

00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:58.040
Pash. I just wondered

00:10:58.160 --> 00:11:00.055
in amongst all the material you've

00:11:00.079 --> 00:11:02.696
presented. It looked as though to me the

00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:05.720
the various ratios or the the various um

00:11:06.800 --> 00:11:09.800
benchmarks that we could consider in

00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:12.856
relation to I think I wrote down

00:11:12.880 --> 00:11:15.880
current liabilities. So there was 2.2

00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:19.399
that went to 3.1 that went to 4.9

00:11:20.560 --> 00:11:23.560
um in terms of unrestricted ratios.

00:11:23.839 --> 00:11:26.536
And so I wondered how those compare with

00:11:26.560 --> 00:11:29.176
what benchmarks are that you're

00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:32.200
expecting within the audit office.

00:11:34.560 --> 00:11:37.560
 yes.  so we don't publish um sort

00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.375
of expected benchmarks within the audit

00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:43.399
office. So um we compare um sometimes

00:11:45.760 --> 00:11:47.815
within the metropolitan councils we

00:11:47.839 --> 00:11:49.976
compare but for the regional councils we

00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:52.536
don't we don't show averages for those.

00:11:52.560 --> 00:11:55.560
Right. So I mean what obviously that

00:11:56.880 --> 00:11:59.880
figure increasing um in terms of

00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.320
unrestricted ratios is improving yet on

00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:05.736
the other hand

00:12:05.760 --> 00:12:08.760
in terms of our council liquidity is

00:12:08.800 --> 00:12:11.800
decreased from 5.6 months to 4.2 months.

00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:15.255
Is that a concern to you?

00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:17.336
I think overall there was an improvement

00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:20.055
in the level of cash and investments

00:12:20.079 --> 00:12:22.216
compared to  the prior year

00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:23.896
particularly in relation to the

00:12:23.920 --> 00:12:26.696
unrestricted amounts um and I know that

00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:28.856
is being very carefully monitored by the

00:12:28.880 --> 00:12:31.495
council um you know due to the

00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:34.216
performance order so um there was an

00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:36.776
improvement in that ratio um and I think

00:12:36.800 --> 00:12:39.336
it's  you need to also look at those

00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:42.360
as being sort of point in time um ratios

00:12:43.040 --> 00:12:45.976
as at 30 June as Well, so it's also good

00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.136
to monitor those on a a longerterm

00:12:48.160 --> 00:12:49.495
basis.

00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:52.055
Right. Thank you very much. Council, did

00:12:52.079 --> 00:12:52.776
you have a question?

00:12:52.800 --> 00:12:55.800
Yeah. In the  the same sort of theme

00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.055
when when you mentioned liquidity with

00:12:58.079 --> 00:13:01.079
4.2 months, is there a bandwidth with um

00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:03.896
regional councils? What's the worst?

00:13:03.920 --> 00:13:05.495
I've heard of one council having as

00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:08.519
little as two weeks coverage and  I'm

00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:11.576
wondering what's the the worst and the

00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.600
best and where do we sit within that?

00:13:14.800 --> 00:13:16.856
 we we don't publish sort of

00:13:16.880 --> 00:13:19.736
benchmarks  for people to operate

00:13:19.760 --> 00:13:22.615
within. Um so when we're actually doing

00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:25.176
our audit work um we look at going

00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:28.200
concern um across the whole year. So for

00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:30.536
us to sign off on a clean audit report

00:13:30.560 --> 00:13:33.560
we need to sign off  that the council

00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:36.055
is able to pay its debts as and when

00:13:36.079 --> 00:13:38.935
they fall due from 12 months from the

00:13:38.959 --> 00:13:40.935
date of signing the financial

00:13:40.959 --> 00:13:43.576
statements. So we get cash flow

00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:45.656
forecasts that look out for that 12

00:13:45.680 --> 00:13:47.255
months and then we have a look at the

00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:50.279
assumptions and um  you know things

00:13:50.880 --> 00:13:53.096
that have been used  as the basis for

00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:54.935
those forecasts to see whether those are

00:13:54.959 --> 00:13:57.959
reasonable. Um so that's how we

00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:00.856
essentially come to our audit 

00:14:00.880 --> 00:14:03.175
conclusion. Um in terms of these

00:14:03.199 --> 00:14:05.416
benchmarks um as I say you need to look

00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.375
at them sort of over time but also note

00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:10.456
that they are a point in time because it

00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:12.536
may be you know that at the end of the

00:14:12.560 --> 00:14:15.560
year some councils may have paid a large

00:14:15.760 --> 00:14:18.136
amount of you know accounts payable to

00:14:18.160 --> 00:14:19.656
clear the books at the end of the year.

00:14:19.680 --> 00:14:21.336
So that might need to be taken into

00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:22.615
consideration.

00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:24.296
Right. And when you say that

00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.320
unrestricted is 4.9 times current

00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:29.576
liabilities, is is the context

00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:31.016
appropriate that we don't have any

00:14:31.040 --> 00:14:32.296
liabilities? I think we've got total

00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:35.175
debts of 38,000 which is one car loan or

00:14:35.199 --> 00:14:38.199
something. So 4.9 times of a tiny amount

00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.120
is not really a lot of liquidity.

00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:44.696
 there would be other accounts payable

00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:47.175
sitting within um those amounts as well

00:14:47.199 --> 00:14:49.896
and also employee entitlements. Yeah,

00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:51.815
the the liabilities would be more

00:14:51.839 --> 00:14:53.576
significant than that

00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:56.055
just lines. Council Summers council

00:14:56.079 --> 00:14:57.016
Stewart.

00:14:57.040 --> 00:14:59.175
Thank you, Linda Summers. I'm a second

00:14:59.199 --> 00:15:00.935
term council, so I've had the enjoyment

00:15:00.959 --> 00:15:03.016
of your dialogue and your colleagues

00:15:03.040 --> 00:15:05.896
dialogues over the last few years. My

00:15:05.920 --> 00:15:08.216
take on your presentation today. If I

00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:10.456
could draw the lens back at a strategic

00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:13.480
level in relation to long-term trends.

00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:15.096
 I know we've still got a structural

00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:17.896
deficit but would you agree that the

00:15:17.920 --> 00:15:20.296
trend wise we have improved over the

00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:22.216
last several years?

00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.296
There has been an improvement yes over

00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:26.456
the last two years. Um so you might

00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:29.480
remember the um unrestricted cash um was

00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:33.639
quite low last year um and that did get

00:15:33.839 --> 00:15:36.375
reviewed quite significantly um and

00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:37.896
there has been an improvement in that.

00:15:37.920 --> 00:15:39.416
So that would be one of the key things

00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.136
we look at, but also the the cash flow

00:15:42.160 --> 00:15:44.216
forecast going forward.

00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:46.536
So continuing the track we're on would

00:15:46.560 --> 00:15:49.096
be um an appropriate move.

00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:51.255
Yes, but obviously it it does need to be

00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:52.856
closely monitored.

00:15:52.880 --> 00:15:54.856
Thank you, Council Stewart.

00:15:54.880 --> 00:15:56.776
Yeah, just my my concern, I don't know

00:15:56.800 --> 00:15:59.416
whether you can answer this, is that the

00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:01.495
um dropping funding from roads to

00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:04.519
recovery to 3.2 million or 3.2 2

00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.336
million. Um, is there any explanation

00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.360
why we um grow to recovery for rural

00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.600
rural councils is a major  funding

00:16:16.880 --> 00:16:19.880
arena to to maintain our road network

00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:22.856
and to see that drop there today is

00:16:22.880 --> 00:16:25.576
quite surprising. So I just I I'd like

00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:27.976
to get a comment where you know because

00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:29.656
if we get another drop like that we'll

00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:32.136
be we'll be out to put above rate

00:16:32.160 --> 00:16:34.055
pegging level on the community to to

00:16:34.079 --> 00:16:36.536
maintain our roads at the standard we

00:16:36.560 --> 00:16:38.935
want. Roads as we know in these rural

00:16:38.959 --> 00:16:41.959
communities are very important and roads

00:16:42.959 --> 00:16:45.016
recovery was brought in for that purpose

00:16:45.040 --> 00:16:47.495
and to see a drop like that is quite

00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:50.519
substantial to me quite alarming.

00:16:50.880 --> 00:16:52.615
I don't know you can on that.

00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:54.776
I don't know.  so I can I'm happy to

00:16:54.800 --> 00:16:56.696
refer it to the chief of infrastructure

00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:58.296
but if you want to if you I don't know

00:16:58.320 --> 00:16:59.656
if I don't think you can answer it but

00:16:59.680 --> 00:17:00.696
if you want

00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:03.175
 the chief the chief of infrastructure

00:17:03.199 --> 00:17:03.815
take that one.

00:17:03.839 --> 00:17:05.336
Excellent sir.

00:17:05.360 --> 00:17:08.360
Yeah. So um the roads to recovery

00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:11.400
program is in fiveyear blocks.

00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:15.319
So some years we might spend quite a

00:17:15.760 --> 00:17:18.136
bit. Other years we might spend not as

00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.160
much but it's considered over the 5year

00:17:21.919 --> 00:17:24.919
block. So in that year we didn't spend

00:17:25.679 --> 00:17:27.256
as much. We didn't have as many projects

00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:28.535
because we had other projects we were

00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.336
doing but then you'll see us spend a

00:17:31.360 --> 00:17:32.616
fair bit more.

00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:33.655
So we've still got

00:17:33.679 --> 00:17:35.256
we haven't lost any money. We haven't

00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:36.616
lost any money. It's it's

00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.096
seemed to me

00:17:39.120 --> 00:17:41.576
and that wasn't we were

00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:44.376
that that's a snapshot of one year. So,

00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.400
but it's R2R's over a 5year horizon. So,

00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:49.496
they give us this is how much money

00:17:49.520 --> 00:17:50.775
we're going to give you for the next 5

00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:53.096
years and you can spend it as you see

00:17:53.120 --> 00:17:54.775
fit, but it's got to be spent in that

00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:55.655
five years.

00:17:55.679 --> 00:17:56.136
All right.

00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:57.816
So, there's highs and lows. I misread

00:17:57.840 --> 00:17:59.655
the

00:17:59.679 --> 00:18:01.736
quite alarming when I see a deficit for

00:18:01.760 --> 00:18:04.760
road to road maintenance and that that

00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.880
sort of sparked me up a little bit and I

00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.176
thought that was a quite a substantial

00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.256
amount of money not to be if we were

00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:14.775
going to miss out on it or we should go

00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:16.376
political on it to make sure we don't

00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:18.216
miss out on.

00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:19.496
Excellent. Any further questions

00:18:19.520 --> 00:18:21.655
councilors? Councelor

00:18:21.679 --> 00:18:23.895
um Sp

00:18:23.919 --> 00:18:26.919
again about the well not again could I

00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:28.616
ask for the first time about the the

00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.015
planned audits you mentioned that there

00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:33.895
were per the performance orders plan for

00:18:33.919 --> 00:18:36.919
ARIC generally at IPR

00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:38.616
can you just outline the nature of how

00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:40.936
that process will will take place and is

00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:43.655
that a is it a is that across the 128

00:18:43.679 --> 00:18:46.679
councils um and can you just sort of

00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.056
give us a an overview of how that

00:18:50.080 --> 00:18:51.736
process will occur.

00:18:51.760 --> 00:18:53.256
 yes. So sorry was that in relation to

00:18:53.280 --> 00:18:54.696
the ARIC one?

00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:56.456
Yeah, the Zaric and you also mentioned

00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:58.136
IPR processes.

00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:01.096
Oh yes, sorry. So  normally with the

00:19:01.120 --> 00:19:03.336
performance audits, they will pick um

00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:05.895
just a sample of councils and then they

00:19:05.919 --> 00:19:08.296
will go into those councils  perform

00:19:08.320 --> 00:19:11.320
the work um look at the scoping around

00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:14.056
 the work with those councils and get

00:19:14.080 --> 00:19:17.080
it agreed. Um and then they will report

00:19:17.600 --> 00:19:19.736
thematically what they find in those

00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:22.136
councils. Um so that has been how the

00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:23.736
last few performance audits have been

00:19:23.760 --> 00:19:25.895
done and I would expect that those will

00:19:25.919 --> 00:19:27.816
be done the same.

00:19:27.840 --> 00:19:29.895
And is there is that just done randomly

00:19:29.919 --> 00:19:32.056
or is it on the basis of red flags that

00:19:32.080 --> 00:19:33.496
have been raised about particular

00:19:33.520 --> 00:19:35.416
councils?

00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:37.496
 in terms of the scoping of the

00:19:37.520 --> 00:19:40.520
councils um sometimes it is random. um

00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.136
if it is something that is across the

00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:47.160
board um although sometimes they do sort

00:19:47.360 --> 00:19:49.976
of target ones if they think that there

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.856
is is more to be seen there.

00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.880
Thank you. Thank you councelor Roie.

00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.816
Thanks for the  report Sue. Look, it's

00:19:59.840 --> 00:20:02.216
pleasing to get an unqualified report

00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:03.736
and it's also good to hear that we're

00:20:03.760 --> 00:20:06.760
improving, but are you able to give us

00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:08.616
an overall

00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:10.535
 judgment of how we're performing

00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:12.696
against comparable councils? I mean,

00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.416
we're going all right or we below

00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.440
average or above average in terms of 

00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:20.696
financial management. So, I I realize

00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:22.535
this is a qualitative assessment, but

00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:24.376
might be helpful for us to know your

00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:25.976
opinion.

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.296
Um I think the best thing is there is

00:20:28.320 --> 00:20:31.320
the  local council report that is due

00:20:31.600 --> 00:20:34.135
out early next year. Included in that

00:20:34.159 --> 00:20:37.015
will be a detailed assessment um of

00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:39.336
long-term sustainability of councils

00:20:39.360 --> 00:20:41.256
across the board. I haven't actually

00:20:41.280 --> 00:20:44.280
seen that report um and I I'm not 

00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.336
working on that report at the moment. So

00:20:47.360 --> 00:20:49.976
um I think that um you know that would

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:52.456
that would be the thing to look at  to

00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:54.856
be able to answer your question. and I'm

00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.176
happy to send that to you.

00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:58.696
Thank you.

00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:00.376
Thank you.

00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:02.376
Thank you so much. No more questions.

00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:03.816
Thank you so much for your time. I

00:21:03.840 --> 00:21:05.416
really appreciate you coming online and

00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:08.376
giving us an update on  the audit.

00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:09.256
Thank you everyone.

00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:11.416
Great Christmas. Yes. Thank you.

00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:12.056
Thank you.

00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:14.056
See you later.

00:21:14.080 --> 00:21:15.736
All right. Councilors, I'm jouring to go

00:21:15.760 --> 00:21:17.336
into public forum. Do I have a seconder?

00:21:17.360 --> 00:21:19.655
Councelor Davis.

00:21:19.679 --> 00:21:22.679
Thank you. All those in favor?

00:21:23.679 --> 00:21:25.736
unanimous. Thank you. All right. We have

00:21:25.760 --> 00:21:28.760
10 speakers today, counselors.

00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:30.936
Um, so our first speaker today is

00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.736
Patrick.

00:21:33.760 --> 00:21:36.696
If you just pop up to the little box up

00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:38.456
here.

00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:39.736
, you'll have five minutes. If you can

00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:40.856
just let us know the topic you're

00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:42.936
talking on, if you're for and against.

00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.015
Um, and then I'll um ring the bell at 4

00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:46.376
minutes 30. If you can just finish up

00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:49.400
your last statement after that, please.

00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:55.336
Good afternoon councilors and council

00:21:55.360 --> 00:21:57.176
staff. My name is Patrick Fitz Simmons

00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.176
and I'm the managing director and town

00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:00.696
planner at Vision Property Development

00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:03.015
Hub and I will be speaking speaking in

00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:05.015
support of the development application

00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:07.496
that we arranged preparation of for a

00:22:07.520 --> 00:22:10.056
freight transport facility at Carlaminda

00:22:10.080 --> 00:22:13.080
Road. Okay.

00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.496
I would begin um by stating my agreement

00:22:15.520 --> 00:22:17.576
with council's planning report and the

00:22:17.600 --> 00:22:19.816
recommendation of conditional approval.

00:22:19.840 --> 00:22:22.376
Both council staff and vision staff have

00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.376
prepared have given consideration to the

00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.096
applicable planning controls

00:22:27.120 --> 00:22:29.976
and including the definitions of the

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.576
proposed land use and the objectives of

00:22:31.600 --> 00:22:33.336
the zone and the appropriateness of the

00:22:33.360 --> 00:22:35.895
development in the context and um the

00:22:35.919 --> 00:22:38.535
land and concluded that it is a

00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:40.456
permitted and appropriate use as

00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:42.296
designed.

00:22:42.320 --> 00:22:43.976
Council's plan I believe council's

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:45.416
planning staff have succinctly

00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.816
summarized the appropeness of the of the

00:22:47.840 --> 00:22:49.736
development on page 49 of the planning

00:22:49.760 --> 00:22:52.760
report describing the land as an ideal

00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.775
location for the social and economic

00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:57.576
growth of the area and for um and for

00:22:57.600 --> 00:22:59.496
the continuence of existing supporting

00:22:59.520 --> 00:23:02.135
road network that already permits um

00:23:02.159 --> 00:23:05.159
heavy and oversized vehicles um to up to

00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:09.960
the existing MBE abbit

00:23:11.919 --> 00:23:13.655
I would like to point out some of the

00:23:13.679 --> 00:23:15.976
mitigation measures that have been

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.000
included in the application including an

00:23:19.520 --> 00:23:21.576
 a landscaped earth mound that will

00:23:21.600 --> 00:23:23.655
mitigate noise views and headlights from

00:23:23.679 --> 00:23:25.015
neighboring um from neighboring

00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:27.895
residences. um extensive landscaping

00:23:27.919 --> 00:23:29.736
proposed for the front of the site as a

00:23:29.760 --> 00:23:31.496
continuation of landscaping from

00:23:31.520 --> 00:23:33.176
neighbor that it's also on neighboring

00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:35.576
aotments or adjoining a lotments.

00:23:35.600 --> 00:23:38.600
Positioning um the development um

00:23:39.280 --> 00:23:40.856
the majority of the development at the

00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.376
front well positioning the development

00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:44.135
at the front of the site to allow for

00:23:44.159 --> 00:23:46.135
the continued use of agriculture at the

00:23:46.159 --> 00:23:49.159
rear part of the site. um positioning

00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.696
the development a great distance from

00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:52.376
the nearest residential sensitive

00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:55.400
residential receiver to the west and a w

00:23:55.600 --> 00:23:57.256
the widen the conditioning of widening

00:23:57.280 --> 00:24:00.280
of caram road for a great length back

00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:04.200
past mbe and the installation of a basic

00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:07.256
left and basic rightand turn as well as

00:24:07.280 --> 00:24:09.895
limiting the hours of use of the site

00:24:09.919 --> 00:24:12.296
these are all effective and measurable

00:24:12.320 --> 00:24:14.616
mitigation measures

00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.376
I would also like to speak on some

00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:18.056
specific points

00:24:18.080 --> 00:24:21.080
um storm water. The development was

00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:24.135
designed in conjunction with Kair civil

00:24:24.159 --> 00:24:27.096
engineers who have designed the site who

00:24:27.120 --> 00:24:30.120
have designed the transport um area to

00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:32.936
be drained  to a spreading device

00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:35.655
dispersing dispersing ups slope of a

00:24:35.679 --> 00:24:37.816
large area within the a lotment for the

00:24:37.840 --> 00:24:39.496
absorption and the continuence of

00:24:39.520 --> 00:24:41.895
drainage in its natural over in its

00:24:41.919 --> 00:24:44.616
natural flow flow path.

00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:47.640
 dust. The development proposes the u

00:24:47.679 --> 00:24:49.655
installation of hard stand gravel

00:24:49.679 --> 00:24:52.135
surface area for the entire area to be

00:24:52.159 --> 00:24:53.976
used for fake as the freight transport

00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:57.000
facility and the and the  and dust

00:24:57.600 --> 00:25:00.296
suppression and erosion prevention is to

00:25:00.320 --> 00:25:02.535
be implemented.

00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:04.456
Traffic safety I've already touched on

00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:06.456
with the widening of Carlaminda Road,

00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:08.535
the installation of a basic left-hand

00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:10.616
turn and right-hand turn and a limiting

00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:13.640
of operating hours at the site.

00:25:14.320 --> 00:25:16.936
In regards to noise and visual impact,

00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:19.655
um the position of the facility a great

00:25:19.679 --> 00:25:21.736
distance from any um neighboring

00:25:21.760 --> 00:25:23.976
residence is a m is an effective

00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.056
mitigation measure in conjunction with

00:25:26.080 --> 00:25:27.655
the earth with the landscaped earth

00:25:27.679 --> 00:25:30.679
mound um which which will I suppose have

00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:34.456
mitigation measures or will be effective

00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.176
in mitigation for both noise and visual

00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.736
impact. The permissibility of the

00:25:39.760 --> 00:25:41.816
development has been addressed in our

00:25:41.840 --> 00:25:43.576
documentation submitted and also

00:25:43.600 --> 00:25:45.976
council's  planning report and it is a

00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:47.255
permissible form of development

00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:50.279
consistent with the zone objectives

00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:57.176
in regards to

00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:00.200
hazardous and offensive development. the

00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.559
um or offensive industry. The

00:26:04.159 --> 00:26:06.856
development um does not constitute an

00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:09.576
industry um and the definition is

00:26:09.600 --> 00:26:11.976
included. In any case, the mitigation

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.296
measures um proposed as part of the

00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:16.936
obligation would mitigate any negative

00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:19.960
impact on any neighboring land use.

00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:24.936
It is for these reasons that I believe

00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:26.535
council should approve the development

00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:27.576
act.

00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:30.600
Thank you. Oh, excellent.

00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.376
Council Summers,

00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:34.216
a quick one. You mentioned the

00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.240
landscaping of the umation mounds. Yes.

00:26:37.679 --> 00:26:40.216
 continuation there, but I would like

00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.216
to give cons. Could you give serious

00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.240
consideration to using native ve?

00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:45.816
Yes.

00:26:45.840 --> 00:26:47.816
Because I think there's pine trees out

00:26:47.840 --> 00:26:48.775
there which are a bit of a

00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:50.216
Oh, it doesn't need to match those. It's

00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:51.976
just that I suppose it's consistent in

00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:53.816
that there's a landscaped frontage. Yes,

00:26:53.840 --> 00:26:54.456
absolutely.

00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:56.216
Definitely need a bench in that

00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.240
corridor. And thank you. Yes,

00:26:59.600 --> 00:27:02.296
councelor Rose and councelor bringing.

00:27:02.320 --> 00:27:04.775
Um, Mr. Fmons, can I just ask a couple

00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:07.655
of questions

00:27:07.679 --> 00:27:09.895
limiting the hours of use? What are the

00:27:09.919 --> 00:27:12.135
proposed what is the proposal currently?

00:27:12.159 --> 00:27:14.456
There's been various things cited when

00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:16.216
change from a temporary facility to a

00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:18.296
permanent one. And yes, as I understand

00:27:18.320 --> 00:27:20.696
it, it could start at 4:00 a.m. Is that

00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:23.720
right? No, the conditions of consent are

00:27:23.840 --> 00:27:26.535
now now limit the operating hours um

00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.559
5:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. on um weekdays

00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:32.456
and I've got a copy of the development

00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:33.976
consent over there. I can go and grab it

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:34.376
at

00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:35.655
you get that information.

00:27:35.679 --> 00:27:37.496
It's a condition of the consent.

00:27:37.520 --> 00:27:38.376
We'll get it for you.

00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:39.255
Okay. Thank you.

00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:40.296
5 a.m.

00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:42.456
5:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. on weekdays and

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.480
is it 6:00 a.m. and is it 8:00 a.m. to 6

00:27:45.679 --> 00:27:47.736
p.m. Mr.

00:27:47.760 --> 00:27:50.760
on um it was a condition of consent. So

00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:54.039
it's impossible.

00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:07.015
Happy to grab my puppy over there.

00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:10.039
Yeah, that's terrible.

00:28:19.679 --> 00:28:21.816
Business hours operation is 5:00 a.m. to

00:28:21.840 --> 00:28:24.696
8:00 p.m. Monday to sun Saturday 8:00

00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:27.655
a.m. 3 p.m. Sorry, 8:00 a.m. to 6:00

00:28:27.679 --> 00:28:30.375
p.m. on Sunday and public holidays.

00:28:30.399 --> 00:28:33.399
And for

00:28:35.120 --> 00:28:38.120
there is also a condition on ASO2

00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:40.696
restricting heavy vehicle movements

00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:43.720
between outside of school bus um out

00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:46.616
route hours

00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:49.416
which is between 7:30 and 9:00 a.m. and

00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.440
3:00 to 4:30 p.m. Thank you. And could

00:28:53.520 --> 00:28:55.336
could you just outline as well because I

00:28:55.360 --> 00:28:57.255
think there was some change in the

00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:00.279
proposal for the widing of Palaminda

00:29:00.399 --> 00:29:03.399
Road. There was a the whole of the road

00:29:03.679 --> 00:29:05.895
and now there's a section of the road.

00:29:05.919 --> 00:29:08.616
Um and I think on the new plans you've

00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:11.640
outlined what that section is.

00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:14.616
What total length is that? Is that

00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:16.856
widening and how wide will would the

00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:19.880
road do? There's a condition um in the

00:29:20.080 --> 00:29:22.216
recommended determination that requires

00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:25.240
it to be widened to 8 mters for um and

00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:29.576
it nominates um a neighboring a lotment

00:29:29.600 --> 00:29:31.255
to the west which is where we've

00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:33.576
measured it to be is just past the the

00:29:33.600 --> 00:29:36.600
Mon beef entry. So we measured it to be

00:29:37.360 --> 00:29:39.655
approximately 800 m in accordance with

00:29:39.679 --> 00:29:42.375
this recommended condition. There is a

00:29:42.399 --> 00:29:45.336
basic left and basic right hand turn

00:29:45.360 --> 00:29:48.135
which widens the road at that point as

00:29:48.159 --> 00:29:51.159
well um at the entry and and exit. So at

00:29:51.679 --> 00:29:54.135
a minimum it's 8 m.

00:29:54.159 --> 00:29:57.159
So the 8 m then decreases the 8 m will

00:29:59.520 --> 00:30:02.520
be in place from just past maf

00:30:03.919 --> 00:30:05.976
to the entrance point.

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:06.296
Yes.

00:30:06.320 --> 00:30:08.375
And that would be a sealed road in that

00:30:08.399 --> 00:30:11.399
area. within the 8 m wide would be the

00:30:11.520 --> 00:30:13.015
ceiling of that road

00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:16.039
and the entrance point would be u a B a

00:30:18.320 --> 00:30:20.696
B story would happen that would be

00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:22.296
sealed at that point there as well.

00:30:22.320 --> 00:30:25.320
Yes. Thank you Rain.

00:30:25.840 --> 00:30:28.375
 Patrick I've got a few questions

00:30:28.399 --> 00:30:31.255
relating to the the need  for this

00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.279
facility. The first question is  where

00:30:34.399 --> 00:30:37.176
do the heavy and oversized vehicles that

00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:39.416
you said would use the facility where do

00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:42.440
they park now and where would they park

00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:45.576
in future if the facility  is not

00:30:45.600 --> 00:30:48.296
allowed to progress and thirdly what

00:30:48.320 --> 00:30:50.296
impact would that have on commerce and

00:30:50.320 --> 00:30:53.320
industry and kuma snowmanero generally

00:30:53.520 --> 00:30:55.736
at present  snowy mountains transport

00:30:55.760 --> 00:30:57.895
operate three sites that I'm aware of in

00:30:57.919 --> 00:31:00.919
in polo flat um one on polo flat road to

00:31:01.840 --> 00:31:04.696
fronting Holland Road. Um I suppose the

00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:07.720
nature of of transport is that then all

00:31:07.760 --> 00:31:09.976
trucks aren't on site at the one time.

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:12.375
So um  they'd be that could be

00:31:12.399 --> 00:31:14.616
interstate. Um so the parking

00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:16.775
temporarily in different locations and

00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:18.216
that would just be managed

00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.240
operationally. I suppose the need for

00:31:21.760 --> 00:31:24.760
the parking is as it's um I suppose

00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.296
detailed in our well

00:31:28.320 --> 00:31:30.296
mentioned in council's planning planning

00:31:30.320 --> 00:31:33.320
assessment is that this the size of the

00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.000
site allows for the um efficient parking

00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.640
of those vehicles and the maneuvering of

00:31:41.679 --> 00:31:43.976
those vehicles to leave in forward

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:47.000
direction. um there isn't really

00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:50.039
available space in  comparatively in

00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:53.736
the polo flat area that would be that's

00:31:53.760 --> 00:31:55.336
available that could be used in that

00:31:55.360 --> 00:31:57.176
way. So I suppose I hope that answers

00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:58.856
your question in terms of the need. It's

00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:01.416
just the area that's available and the

00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.416
site was selected because of its

00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:05.336
proximity. When you stand at the front

00:32:05.360 --> 00:32:07.096
of the site and you stand at the entry

00:32:07.120 --> 00:32:10.120
to the site, the back of the landfill is

00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:13.416
fully visible there. And when you turn

00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.296
around, Mon beef is and the um holding

00:32:16.320 --> 00:32:18.216
yards are all visible straight across

00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:21.240
the road. It already has a character, I

00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:24.056
suppose you would say, of an ind of an

00:32:24.080 --> 00:32:26.775
industrial mixed mixeduse area of

00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:29.799
agriculture and and and commercial. The

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.216
last part of your question

00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:35.240
impact on commerce and industry

00:32:36.399 --> 00:32:39.096
in snow Monero if if this facility is

00:32:39.120 --> 00:32:41.416
not allowed to be constructed

00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:44.440
very broad I suppose um certainly

00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:46.936
certainly it would be very impactful it

00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:48.856
wouldn't it would be impactful on 

00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:50.936
snowy mountains transport because it

00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:52.535
offers a lot of efficiency for their

00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.616
business operation

00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:56.936
out of that space

00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:58.216
council

00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.056
 thank you Patrick

00:33:00.080 --> 00:33:02.696
A couple of quick questions. The

00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.495
widening column into road 8 m which

00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:08.519
appears to be proposed condition_01.

00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:13.655
Do you object to that on the basis that

00:33:13.679 --> 00:33:15.655
you have an NHVR permit that has

00:33:15.679 --> 00:33:17.655
assessed the suitability of the road for

00:33:17.679 --> 00:33:20.456
your vehicles? So why do you agree to

00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:21.895
widen the road or do you want that

00:33:21.919 --> 00:33:23.655
condition removed because it's

00:33:23.679 --> 00:33:26.679
redundant? in the in as part of a um

00:33:27.600 --> 00:33:29.495
consultation discussion we had with

00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:32.519
council's um engineering staff with the

00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:35.895
um with um the clients and myself um

00:33:35.919 --> 00:33:38.296
this was raised. Council felt that even

00:33:38.320 --> 00:33:40.616
though a permit was in place, the road

00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:43.576
widening was needed to um from a safety

00:33:43.600 --> 00:33:46.216
point of view. Um and so the condition

00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:47.495
remains.

00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:48.775
Are you happy for the condition to

00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:51.176
remain or would you like it removed? Be

00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.200
calm.

00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.856
Well, we can do that.

00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:58.775
I feel we've already raised that with

00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.655
council's um engineering staff and made

00:34:01.679 --> 00:34:03.176
a submission as such and council's

00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:04.616
engineering staff had felt that it

00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:06.696
should that it should remain in place.

00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:08.936
What was your submission though?

00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:11.496
Um you already know the answer. What was

00:34:11.520 --> 00:34:13.496
your submission? This is your chance.

00:34:13.520 --> 00:34:15.176
The discussion was regarding

00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:16.375
you know the answer then you can debate

00:34:16.399 --> 00:34:17.416
it in the debate.

00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:17.895
Yeah.

00:34:17.919 --> 00:34:19.575
But I want everyone to hear. So

00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:21.736
maybe we'll do that too. Then we can't

00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:23.095
ask Patrick any questions.

00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:24.135
You're interrogating.

00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:25.496
Yeah, I'm not interrogating.

00:34:25.520 --> 00:34:26.375
Do you feel you like to answer it or

00:34:26.399 --> 00:34:27.815
not? It's your decision.

00:34:27.839 --> 00:34:30.839
The the discussion was around the um

00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:34.536
basic left and basic right hand turn

00:34:34.560 --> 00:34:37.496
treatments and how um how long those

00:34:37.520 --> 00:34:39.095
treatments go when you when you create

00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.176
them, which I think was about 90 mters.

00:34:41.200 --> 00:34:43.655
We had engineering submission for that.

00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:45.575
Um

00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:46.936
the discussion with council's

00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.615
engineering staff was would that be

00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:51.639
deemed adequate and and enough um

00:34:51.839 --> 00:34:54.055
between in the length of road between 

00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:56.696
to I suppose to provide safe turning and

00:34:56.720 --> 00:34:59.016
safe travel for trucks in the length of

00:34:59.040 --> 00:35:02.040
road between the entry and where the the

00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:05.095
road is already widened for a length

00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:07.335
outside of Monaf to cater for truck

00:35:07.359 --> 00:35:09.575
truck movements. um council's

00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:11.416
engineering staff felt that it wasn't

00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:13.896
because there is se that section that

00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:15.896
would be left over they felt was still

00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:18.376
too narrow and this would increase truck

00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:20.216
movements to the site and so the

00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:21.976
recommendation by council's engineering

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.936
staff was that it remain in in the suite

00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:27.176
of conditions

00:35:27.200 --> 00:35:30.055
so therefore do you accept it as a

00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:31.176
condition

00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:34.200
we are I suppose pleased with the

00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:36.616
recommendation for approval and the

00:35:36.640 --> 00:35:38.776
conditions that have been included

00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:41.416
We've we we felt we've sp we've been

00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:43.256
heard by council's engineering staff and

00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.416
raised the point and the response has

00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:46.696
been provided.

00:35:46.720 --> 00:35:48.216
Okay. Thank you.

00:35:48.240 --> 00:35:49.656
Thank you so much for your time. Really

00:35:49.680 --> 00:35:50.856
appreciate it. Oh, did you have another

00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:53.575
question? Sorry. No. Thank you so much.

00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:54.776
Appreciate you.

00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:56.376
Our second speaker today is Charles

00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:59.400
Colano. Charles, you have five minutes.

00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:01.095
If you can let us know the topic you're

00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:02.696
talking on for against, I'll ring the

00:36:02.720 --> 00:36:04.456
bell at 4 minutes 30. Um and if you can

00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:05.575
just finish off your last bit of

00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.599
statement, please.

00:36:11.839 --> 00:36:14.296
 thank you  Charles Kleiner. I'm

00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:17.320
speaking against agenda item 9.3.7

00:36:17.520 --> 00:36:19.976
the delivery program.

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.376
I highlight nine points where I believe

00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:24.696
counselors should not approve or note

00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:27.416
these documents until the documents are

00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:30.440
corrected with true and accurate inputs

00:36:30.720 --> 00:36:33.335
and the discrepancies explained to the

00:36:33.359 --> 00:36:36.216
community's satisfaction.

00:36:36.240 --> 00:36:38.936
Point one, council's delivery program is

00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:41.960
a fixed 4-year plan. If this is true,

00:36:43.200 --> 00:36:45.416
why is council not continuing with the

00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:47.256
2226

00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:50.280
delivery program for another year?

00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.320
Number two, the delivery program 2529

00:36:54.640 --> 00:36:57.640
for major project infrastructure at page

00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:01.320
70 for the Kuma snowy reservoir design

00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:04.760
and construction has a budget of 3.2 25

00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:08.055
million.

00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:11.079
While in the 2226 delivery program on

00:37:11.680 --> 00:37:14.680
page 74 for the same Burma Snowy

00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:17.575
reservoir, it shows a figure of $5

00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:19.575
million.

00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:21.256
There's an unexplained difference of

00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.280
$1.75 million for the same project

00:37:24.720 --> 00:37:27.176
between these two documents.

00:37:27.200 --> 00:37:29.176
Number three,

00:37:29.200 --> 00:37:32.200
the delivery program 2529 of page 84

00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:35.800
states employee cost for the year 2526

00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:41.176
is 39.43

00:37:41.200 --> 00:37:43.976
million. However, in the delivery

00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:46.616
program 2226,

00:37:46.640 --> 00:37:49.640
it states for the same period 2526,

00:37:51.040 --> 00:37:54.040
the employee benefits and on cost to be

00:37:54.240 --> 00:37:57.240
36.238. 238 million begs the question

00:37:59.359 --> 00:38:02.359
where is the extra 3.192 million for

00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:05.335
council employees coming from for the

00:38:05.359 --> 00:38:07.736
same period.

00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:10.760
Please note wage increase wage increases

00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:13.256
of approximately 5.4%

00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:15.736
peranom to the benefit of council

00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:17.815
employees apply to each of the following

00:38:17.839 --> 00:38:20.839
years until 2829

00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:24.456
who approved these increases.

00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.480
Four to page 226 of council's current

00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:30.760
business paper states 106 projects

00:38:31.359 --> 00:38:33.815
identified where 80 projects are being

00:38:33.839 --> 00:38:35.976
worked on four have been completed and

00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:38.696
26 still to come.

00:38:38.720 --> 00:38:41.720
In fact this is 110 projects not 106

00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.095
with a completion rate of plus or minus

00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:47.736
3.6%.

00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:49.496
Fine.

00:38:49.520 --> 00:38:51.976
In attachment one, the project delivery

00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.000
report at page 287

00:38:55.200 --> 00:38:58.200
states 76 projects in progress, four

00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:01.320
completed and 26 not started. The total

00:39:02.640 --> 00:39:05.176
of 106 projects with a completion rate

00:39:05.200 --> 00:39:07.976
of 3.77%.

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:09.575
Six.

00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:12.536
Attachment two at page 315 of the

00:39:12.560 --> 00:39:15.560
principal activity report states 76

00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:19.800
projects in progress, two not started

00:39:20.160 --> 00:39:22.936
with none completed.

00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.960
Therefore, there is 0% of projects

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:29.000
completed. However, recorded in the

00:39:29.040 --> 00:39:32.040
percentage column, it shows 8%

00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:35.400
completed. How?

00:39:35.839 --> 00:39:38.839
Seven. Page 317 of the principal

00:39:39.040 --> 00:39:41.416
activity report highlights council's

00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:44.440
position as regulator where it states,

00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.856
"Our air, land, and waterways to ensure

00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:49.335
they are protected and investigate

00:39:49.359 --> 00:39:51.016
customer complaints in regard to

00:39:51.040 --> 00:39:53.335
potential unlawful activities impacting

00:39:53.359 --> 00:39:55.416
the environment.

00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:58.440
This also shows an 8% completion rate.

00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:03.480
Eight council's position as stated is

00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.536
our built to natural environment team

00:40:06.560 --> 00:40:08.856
believe that there appears to be serious

00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:11.880
breaches given from both councils and

00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:14.456
states jurisdictions

00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:16.856
to reports of land clearing building

00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:19.496
cabins without approval and daming up

00:40:19.520 --> 00:40:22.216
creeks to provide access.

00:40:22.240 --> 00:40:23.815
Nine.

00:40:23.839 --> 00:40:26.456
The department of  climate change,

00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:29.016
energy, environment, and water was also

00:40:29.040 --> 00:40:31.976
informed of these matters in January 25

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:35.000
by council with council's assurance.

00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:37.656
And I quote,

00:40:37.680 --> 00:40:39.976
"I trust this will give counselors and

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.136
Mr. Kano some confidence that we take

00:40:42.160 --> 00:40:45.016
these matters seriously. As always, I

00:40:45.040 --> 00:40:46.776
will provide an update with more

00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.335
information when more information is

00:40:49.359 --> 00:40:51.256
available.

00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:53.736
It is over 11 months since the report of

00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:56.536
serious breaches to the environment and

00:40:56.560 --> 00:40:59.560
council's own policies. So when will

00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:02.920
more information become available? Thank

00:41:03.359 --> 00:41:04.055
you.

00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:07.079
Thank you council favor.

00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:09.976
Thank you Mr. Ko. It's been a full year

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.616
of your presentations. Much  much

00:41:12.640 --> 00:41:14.216
welcomed.

00:41:14.240 --> 00:41:16.696
um

00:41:16.720 --> 00:41:19.720
these  cabins that were reported in

00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:21.416
January,

00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:24.216
they're now occupied now, I believe.

00:41:24.240 --> 00:41:26.696
Um I saw something on Facebook where

00:41:26.720 --> 00:41:29.016
they wanted to rent them out on a yearly

00:41:29.040 --> 00:41:31.976
basis. One of the cabins in particular.

00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:32.696
Yes.

00:41:32.720 --> 00:41:34.856
And that in this 11 months since they

00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:36.456
were reported, you've received a letter

00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:38.616
from the EPA

00:41:38.640 --> 00:41:40.536
advising you you get an update, but you

00:41:40.560 --> 00:41:42.776
had no information. No, I didn't get

00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.496
anything from the DC EW.

00:41:45.520 --> 00:41:46.696
All right. So, where did that letter

00:41:46.720 --> 00:41:47.736
come from?

00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:49.176
, from council.

00:41:49.200 --> 00:41:51.575
Oh, so council got But you haven't

00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:52.295
received anything?

00:41:52.319 --> 00:41:54.776
I haven't received anything. No.

00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:56.616
Right.

00:41:56.640 --> 00:41:58.696
Thank you, Mr. Climate.

00:41:58.720 --> 00:42:01.656
Any

00:42:01.680 --> 00:42:04.680
um Mr. Plate? Um, just wanted to make

00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:07.880
sure I understood um what council was

00:42:09.040 --> 00:42:12.040
asking about. So, you're saying there

00:42:12.240 --> 00:42:15.240
are eco cabins approved up in the the

00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.400
Walmart tri allows those

00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:23.896
and

00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:26.616
someone's advertised one of them for

00:42:26.640 --> 00:42:29.640
permanent occup occupation.

00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:32.936
There were three cabins originally built

00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:34.936
without council's knowledge. One of

00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.176
those is within the riparian zone and

00:42:37.200 --> 00:42:40.055
from what I've told and I do believe it

00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.376
has a septic system within that riparian

00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:44.136
zone which is a no no according to

00:42:44.160 --> 00:42:45.815
council zone policies.

00:42:45.839 --> 00:42:47.736
Is that is that on the snowy river?

00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:50.760
Yes. Right now,

00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:54.920
once I lodged a complaint with council,

00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:57.095
it took about two weeks before an

00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:59.736
application was put into council, a

00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:02.760
section 68 for two  manufactured

00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:05.815
homes.

00:43:05.839 --> 00:43:07.736
And not long after that, they were

00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:10.136
approved. So, in total, I guess there

00:43:10.160 --> 00:43:13.160
are five cabins there now.

00:43:14.240 --> 00:43:16.696
and and one of them at least was

00:43:16.720 --> 00:43:17.736
advertised for

00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:19.656
it was advertised on the kuma notice

00:43:19.680 --> 00:43:22.376
board for a 12 month period.

00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:25.400
Okay, thank you.

00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:29.000
And thanks Mr. Carlo for checking into

00:43:29.680 --> 00:43:31.815
our documents so carefully which we

00:43:31.839 --> 00:43:34.839
appreciate. And as I understand all the

00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:38.200
points that you make, you you believe

00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:41.016
there are some internal inconsistencies

00:43:41.040 --> 00:43:44.040
within the council's delivery

00:43:44.160 --> 00:43:47.160
program that that actually are incon

00:43:47.200 --> 00:43:49.656
internally inconsistent and confusing

00:43:49.680 --> 00:43:52.616
because in some places it indicates

00:43:52.640 --> 00:43:54.936
there's been a certain percentage 8%

00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:57.815
completed. others it says 0% completed

00:43:57.839 --> 00:43:59.976
and so what you're addressing turning

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:03.000
our attention to is to have a look at

00:44:03.040 --> 00:44:05.656
that material to see what has been

00:44:05.680 --> 00:44:07.256
completed what hasn't been completed and

00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:09.176
what's in doubt is that the

00:44:09.200 --> 00:44:12.136
that's correct especially in the 

00:44:12.160 --> 00:44:15.160
where is it here I have it here

00:44:15.359 --> 00:44:18.359
just a moment excuse me

00:44:21.359 --> 00:44:23.736
it's in the principal activity report

00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:26.295
where all the activities show 8%

00:44:26.319 --> 00:44:26.936
completed.

00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:27.575
Yes.

00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:29.496
That how can that be?

00:44:29.520 --> 00:44:31.256
Yes.

00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:34.280
Um and the other thing I think that you

00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:36.536
was having having a significant dollar

00:44:36.560 --> 00:44:39.560
value is the is the employment um

00:44:40.720 --> 00:44:43.720
benefits or employment costs of 39.4

00:44:44.319 --> 00:44:47.319
versus you've said 36.238. So there's

00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:50.136
there's a difference of about 3 million

00:44:50.160 --> 00:44:52.536
there and we need to look at that

00:44:52.560 --> 00:44:55.560
3.192 million as compared in the page

00:44:58.560 --> 00:45:00.536
118

00:45:00.560 --> 00:45:03.560
and page 84 of the 2529

00:45:05.520 --> 00:45:06.776
and compare them yourself.

00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:09.800
That's that's helpful. I I think um Mr.

00:45:09.839 --> 00:45:11.976
Mayor perhaps we should put Mr. colon

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.000
onto a special local audit team to

00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:18.616
track us and do all sorts of great work.

00:45:18.640 --> 00:45:19.016
Thank you.

00:45:19.040 --> 00:45:20.295
Thank you.

00:45:20.319 --> 00:45:22.696
Thanks Charles for your time. Our third

00:45:22.720 --> 00:45:25.720
speaker today  councilors is Don Oh,

00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:29.960
can I um ask for a question on notice to

00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:31.176
be taken

00:45:31.200 --> 00:45:32.536
in the council meeting when it comes up

00:45:32.560 --> 00:45:34.055
to the delivery plan? You can ask

00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:36.696
questions on notice. Our third speaker

00:45:36.720 --> 00:45:39.720
today is  Don Mment.

00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:43.176
Don, you have your five minutes. I'll

00:45:43.200 --> 00:45:45.256
ring the bell at 4 minutes 30. If you

00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:46.616
can finish off your if you can sorry,

00:45:46.640 --> 00:45:48.295
let us know what you're talking on for

00:45:48.319 --> 00:45:50.136
against um at 4 minutes 30. I'll ring

00:45:50.160 --> 00:45:51.496
the bell and I'll um if you can just

00:45:51.520 --> 00:45:54.520
finish off your last sentence. Thanks.

00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:59.176
Thank Thank you again, counselors.

00:45:59.200 --> 00:46:01.815
 could I just make a point that um

00:46:01.839 --> 00:46:04.839
when this was withdrawn from the  the

00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:07.575
previous meeting I think was September,

00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:09.496
one party that was elected to speak

00:46:09.520 --> 00:46:11.575
against the proposal of the freight

00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:14.599
depot is  not in Kuma and the 6day

00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:19.079
notice that council applied um has been

00:46:19.680 --> 00:46:22.680
a detriment to those people and also one

00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:26.119
of the adjoining owners of this proposal

00:46:26.160 --> 00:46:28.856
has is not able to speak because that

00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:31.335
person was not in the first three that

00:46:31.359 --> 00:46:33.815
applied to do it. I appreciate my

00:46:33.839 --> 00:46:36.839
opportunity, but I would ask you to be

00:46:37.040 --> 00:46:40.040
in fairness that you might consider this

00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:42.776
development being um held over to at

00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:45.416
least February to make all point all

00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:48.440
people that  are involved. And this is

00:46:48.720 --> 00:46:51.720
not a small thing. This is a major thing

00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:54.760
for the people in that area.

00:46:56.319 --> 00:46:58.295
I don't normally get nervous at public

00:46:58.319 --> 00:47:01.319
speaking, but this is got me nervous

00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:04.599
because the decision that you make is

00:47:04.640 --> 00:47:07.640
going to greatly affect um my wife's

00:47:08.240 --> 00:47:11.240
life and my life and possibly our future

00:47:11.359 --> 00:47:14.359
in Kuma because um we're the direct line

00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:19.176
of the potential freight depot. You've

00:47:19.200 --> 00:47:21.736
read in your notes, we're three 400 m.

00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:24.136
We're actually 385

00:47:24.160 --> 00:47:27.160
m to the house, but only 200 m to our

00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:29.736
boundary.

00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:32.760
This this application

00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:35.656
has more fabrications and general

00:47:35.680 --> 00:47:38.680
statements than it has detail. And I

00:47:39.839 --> 00:47:41.815
hope that you've had the diligence to

00:47:41.839 --> 00:47:44.839
read this and absorb what's not in it

00:47:45.040 --> 00:47:46.856
because I've been through it in the last

00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:49.815
few days and we're a cricketing family

00:47:49.839 --> 00:47:51.736
and I didn't even know the test was on

00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:53.416
yesterday.

00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:55.256
Um

00:47:55.280 --> 00:47:57.496
it says that they move the the

00:47:57.520 --> 00:47:59.256
applicants got to move because of land

00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:02.280
in Polo Flat not being available. They

00:48:02.640 --> 00:48:05.416
are currently on a site in Polo Flat. So

00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:07.416
there's land available

00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:09.416
in the period of time the snowy is

00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:11.095
called the expressions of interest for

00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:14.119
land  in polo flat and now the road

00:48:14.319 --> 00:48:17.319
past the um past the rural fire thing

00:48:18.319 --> 00:48:20.856
allows the snowy land to be opened up

00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.656
and further exploration of development

00:48:23.680 --> 00:48:26.680
there. The big shed near the airport has

00:48:27.359 --> 00:48:30.359
been sold twice in the last three years.

00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:33.416
So there was an opportunity there. the

00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:36.440
the four hectares, 10 acres behind the

00:48:36.640 --> 00:48:39.640
big wall store, the long house, has been

00:48:39.839 --> 00:48:42.616
bought and developed and put back on the

00:48:42.640 --> 00:48:44.696
market, and I'm not sure whether it's

00:48:44.720 --> 00:48:47.720
sold or available still. The council has

00:48:47.839 --> 00:48:50.839
sold two major sites in Polo Flat. Um,

00:48:53.200 --> 00:48:55.736
Mondello's got a development going as

00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:58.696
well and possibly purchase of his whole

00:48:58.720 --> 00:49:01.720
thing as possible. and  opposite the

00:49:01.839 --> 00:49:04.216
truck stop that lovely side opposite

00:49:04.240 --> 00:49:06.616
there which was purchased and is now

00:49:06.640 --> 00:49:09.640
smaller lots has has also been sold. So

00:49:10.640 --> 00:49:13.176
I think that the opportunity to stay in

00:49:13.200 --> 00:49:16.200
Polo flat has has just been

00:49:17.200 --> 00:49:19.095
ignored.

00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:20.936
Now we've established on previous

00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:22.856
occasions that we've spoke that the road

00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:24.535
is unsafe.

00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:27.496
You've you've in this paper you've put

00:49:27.520 --> 00:49:30.520
that the the developer has to increase

00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:33.575
the road to 8 mters and they've called

00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:36.599
it a 6 m road. It's not a 6 m road. It's

00:49:37.520 --> 00:49:40.520
5.2 at the worst spot. It's 5.5 in just

00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:44.599
before their gateway. And if you allow

00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:47.656
them to develop that piece of road up

00:49:47.680 --> 00:49:49.416
the hill to Mon beef and up to their

00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.440
gate, if the road's unsafe, guess who

00:49:53.359 --> 00:49:55.496
has to wear the rest of it from Polo

00:49:55.520 --> 00:49:58.216
Flat Road to where they develop? The

00:49:58.240 --> 00:50:00.216
council's going to have to wear it. If

00:50:00.240 --> 00:50:02.535
you put it in papers that it's unsafe

00:50:02.559 --> 00:50:04.856
and then do nothing about it and that

00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.880
that intersection at  Polaro Flat Road

00:50:08.559 --> 00:50:11.559
is is abominable like for trucks and and

00:50:12.160 --> 00:50:15.160
people just have a drive down it. I'm

00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:17.016
going to quickly go over things because

00:50:17.040 --> 00:50:18.535
there's a couple of things I really want

00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:21.559
to concentrate on. Native species that

00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:24.456
country out there is infested with

00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:26.616
legless lizards and earless dragons.

00:50:26.640 --> 00:50:28.856
I've participated in a national park

00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:31.575
survey with my family. We found them on

00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:34.599
the land where the council proposes the

00:50:34.640 --> 00:50:37.640
compost  compost thing. Um your town

00:50:39.359 --> 00:50:40.936
planner said to me, "That's good.

00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:43.256
There's a lot there because we're only

00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:45.095
worried when they're getting near

00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:48.055
extinct." The koalas and bumies would be

00:50:48.079 --> 00:50:51.079
pleased to hear that. I'm sure

00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:53.896
the traffic report is one page. It gives

00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:56.920
you no detail, no speeds, no signs.

00:50:58.240 --> 00:51:01.240
The vis visual impact

00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:04.280
or the the visual impact on this um on

00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:07.496
this proposal.

00:51:07.520 --> 00:51:09.815
Have you got much more to do?

00:51:09.839 --> 00:51:12.055
Well, that's a shame because I've got

00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:14.616
plenty to say. The visual impact

00:51:14.640 --> 00:51:16.055
I'll give you another two minutes.

00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:19.079
Visual impact is nil. There's a 4 m

00:51:19.839 --> 00:51:22.839
earth wall. There's 2.5 m security

00:51:23.520 --> 00:51:25.896
fence. There's containers. There's 20

00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:28.616
trucks. There's cars, utes, toilets,

00:51:28.640 --> 00:51:31.640
tanks, and 440 m of 2.1 security fence.

00:51:34.720 --> 00:51:36.535
Visual impact. Neil. You got to be

00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:39.335
kidding me, haven't you? Um, the light

00:51:39.359 --> 00:51:42.359
spill from trucks in the night and in

00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:44.856
the early morning. It'll be like a

00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:46.856
search light there.

00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:49.880
But the the two main issues are dust and

00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:51.976
noise.

00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:55.000
A gravel hard stand, 38 truck movements,

00:51:56.160 --> 00:51:59.160
that's 530 truck movements a week.

00:51:59.920 --> 00:52:02.856
That's dust and that's powder. And they

00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:05.880
haven't got water there to deal with it.

00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:09.480
Now, the issue of noise.

00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:13.960
the issue of noise.

00:52:16.240 --> 00:52:19.240
That's that's the guidelines for noise

00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:23.079
with industry in New South Wales.

00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:26.456
Have a look and see what you got. You

00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:28.055
got a small graph in there that

00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:31.079
suggested the trucks are 85 dibels

00:52:33.359 --> 00:52:35.575
from the

00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:38.599
in middle flat and from the segment

00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:41.800
factory. Truck brakes are 113 dibels,

00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:46.280
truck door 99 dibels, truck idling 109

00:52:47.520 --> 00:52:49.496
dibels.

00:52:49.520 --> 00:52:51.736
The calculation that we've done from

00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:54.760
that site to to our house

00:52:56.559 --> 00:52:59.559
suggests 59 dibels at our house with the

00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:02.055
calculation.

00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:04.696
You've been given an understated

00:53:04.720 --> 00:53:07.720
calculation in there and 59 dibels from

00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:11.815
what I've been told by my expert is

00:53:11.839 --> 00:53:14.376
really noisy.

00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:17.400
Um the noise factor has been overlooked

00:53:18.240 --> 00:53:21.240
completely by the developers.

00:53:21.839 --> 00:53:24.535
No noise assessment has been undertaken.

00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:27.256
It's a fundamental omission.

00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:30.055
No acoustic assessment. Background

00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:32.295
noise. The background noise at night out

00:53:32.319 --> 00:53:35.319
there is 20. The accepted industry

00:53:36.160 --> 00:53:39.160
standard is 30 to 35. These things are

00:53:39.839 --> 00:53:42.839
59 61 67 dibels

00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:47.559
that no acoustics done. There is no

00:53:47.839 --> 00:53:50.839
supporting data. So you cannot possibly

00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:55.016
pass this this development. All your

00:53:55.040 --> 00:53:57.736
research is there in the quality in the

00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:00.760
quarry del

00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:03.335
this is a this is a 40inut speech.

00:54:03.359 --> 00:54:04.295
I understand that

00:54:04.319 --> 00:54:07.319
and our life is in is being considered

00:54:07.359 --> 00:54:09.496
now. I appreciate that, but I've given

00:54:09.520 --> 00:54:11.815
you extra time too. Councilors, any

00:54:11.839 --> 00:54:14.839
questions? Council Father, u

00:54:15.040 --> 00:54:16.696
I just want to assure you that not all

00:54:16.720 --> 00:54:19.496
truck breaks are 59 decibel. I've got to

00:54:19.520 --> 00:54:21.416
scan you with disc brakes and you can't

00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:22.936
your question council.

00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:24.856
 Mr. Mention, you were a real estate

00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:26.856
agent for good number of years.

00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:28.136
41.

00:54:28.160 --> 00:54:29.976
How many properties did you sell that

00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:31.656
then got developed that maybe the

00:54:31.680 --> 00:54:32.776
neighbors might not have been happy

00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:33.256
about?

00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:35.176
How many did I what? How many properties

00:54:35.200 --> 00:54:38.200
did you sell that were then developed by

00:54:38.319 --> 00:54:40.216
people that might have upset neighbors?

00:54:40.240 --> 00:54:41.335
You don't have to answer that. There's

00:54:41.359 --> 00:54:43.736
no it's not part of this thing.

00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:45.335
Do you understand?

00:54:45.359 --> 00:54:47.416
Sorry. It sounds like you can argue you

00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:49.016
ask a question in public forum.

00:54:49.040 --> 00:54:50.295
No, you wouldn't let him answer it.

00:54:50.319 --> 00:54:51.656
Yes. And he doesn't have to answer. It's

00:54:51.680 --> 00:54:53.095
nothing to do with this. You're talking

00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:55.416
about a truck depot here. You can ask a

00:54:55.440 --> 00:54:57.016
question. If you like to debate, debate

00:54:57.040 --> 00:54:58.136
in the council meeting.

00:54:58.160 --> 00:55:00.696
I'm not debating. I asked Mr. Mayor. I

00:55:00.720 --> 00:55:02.696
asked a question and he doesn't even

00:55:02.720 --> 00:55:04.216
have to give me an exact answer, but

00:55:04.240 --> 00:55:05.335
he doesn't have to give an answer. Full

00:55:05.359 --> 00:55:05.976
stop.

00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:06.295
Question.

00:55:06.319 --> 00:55:08.136
I'm happy to rephrase my question.

00:55:08.160 --> 00:55:09.095
Rephrase it.

00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:11.256
Mr. Mansion, were you a real estate for

00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:12.936
a number of years in that real estate

00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:13.656
agent?

00:55:13.680 --> 00:55:14.535
He answered that question.

00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:15.736
I'm rephrasing it.

00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:17.656
Yes, he's answered yes to that. 81

00:55:17.680 --> 00:55:18.456
years.

00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:20.776
You sold a lot of properties that were

00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:22.376
developed into a range of different

00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:24.055
uses.

00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:27.079
Um, yes, we did. And not one outside the

00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:31.000
zone that it was applied to.

00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:33.016
And do you think that this zone is

00:55:33.040 --> 00:55:35.256
incorrect or is it a a permissible use

00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:36.936
in the zone? Is that being made clear to

00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:37.656
anyone or

00:55:37.680 --> 00:55:39.176
what which zone you refer? The

00:55:39.200 --> 00:55:40.616
zone that you're in that you're talking

00:55:40.640 --> 00:55:41.896
about.

00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:44.920
The zone where we live is a rural zone

00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:47.575
and the objectives of the rural zone are

00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:48.696
quite clear.

00:55:48.720 --> 00:55:51.720
It's been rural land for since the

00:55:52.240 --> 00:55:55.240
1830s.

00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:56.616
Councelor Hopkins.

00:55:56.640 --> 00:55:58.456
Um so just a really quick question.

00:55:58.480 --> 00:56:00.376
Thanks D for um all the points you've

00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:02.376
made. There were you mentioned a few of

00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:04.055
your neighbors or people nearby weren't

00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:05.976
able to come today and speak for a

00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:07.896
number of reasons. Do you know if they

00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:10.920
were able to put in written submissions?

00:56:11.680 --> 00:56:14.680
one party put in um I'm not sure the

00:56:15.200 --> 00:56:17.416
extent of their pos their their

00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:19.815
submission but one party who was to

00:56:19.839 --> 00:56:22.136
speak at the meeting in gindermine is

00:56:22.160 --> 00:56:24.856
not in kuma at the moment and what we

00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:26.775
have found for something as important as

00:56:26.799 --> 00:56:29.799
this the six day notice that comes to us

00:56:30.160 --> 00:56:32.856
is not sufficient because people are

00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:33.335
away

00:56:33.359 --> 00:56:36.359
yeah appreciate that even without the DA

00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:38.136
consideration process I think there's an

00:56:38.160 --> 00:56:40.936
opportunity to put in some machine

00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:43.256
I can't speak for them. I'm not sure

00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:44.856
what they did.

00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:45.575
Council,

00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:48.136
but you chose to hear them.

00:56:48.160 --> 00:56:49.095
Thank you,

00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:50.055
Council Elliot.

00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:52.696
Well, more to the Mayor. Mr. Mitch and

00:56:52.720 --> 00:56:54.456
Service to this community. Could he have

00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:56.616
another two minutes just to finish?

00:56:56.640 --> 00:56:57.896
I've given him eight minutes.

00:56:57.920 --> 00:56:58.376
I know.

00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:01.176
And we've got another I understand all

00:57:01.200 --> 00:57:02.456
that, but I think

00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:04.696
we got seven more speakers to go. Um,

00:57:04.720 --> 00:57:07.016
and we have got his submission.

00:57:07.040 --> 00:57:09.256
It was good and I appreciate it, but we

00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:11.656
have to stick. Councelor Rose,

00:57:11.680 --> 00:57:14.216
Mr. Mitch, my ease picked up. I think

00:57:14.240 --> 00:57:16.616
the the phrase I wrote down was there's

00:57:16.640 --> 00:57:18.856
more fabrication

00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:21.256
in this report in this material. Could

00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:23.256
you just draw attention to the areas of

00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:25.736
fabrication that you were referring to?

00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:28.760
Okay. Um I think it'll take an hour for

00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:32.760
us at a special meeting to do it. Okay.

00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:35.256
A joining development

00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:38.136
of a similar nature.

00:57:38.160 --> 00:57:41.160
Now the similar nature is the council

00:57:41.200 --> 00:57:44.200
land to the south which is rural. Um a

00:57:45.680 --> 00:57:48.680
property to the east which is rural. Our

00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:52.936
property to the west which is rural and

00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:55.176
across the road is part of the land of

00:57:55.200 --> 00:57:58.200
mbeaf which runs cattle and um northeast

00:58:00.640 --> 00:58:03.640
is another rural property. Now a joining

00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:07.000
development of a similar nature

00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:10.295
there's nobody there with any trucks got

00:58:10.319 --> 00:58:10.616
the point

00:58:10.640 --> 00:58:12.295
apart from what goes to Montby

00:58:12.319 --> 00:58:13.496
thank you

00:58:13.520 --> 00:58:16.520
 streetscape the proposal is generally

00:58:17.200 --> 00:58:19.095
compatible this is the statements that

00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:22.119
are in this the proposal is generally

00:58:22.319 --> 00:58:25.319
compatible with adjoining development

00:58:25.599 --> 00:58:27.496
there's nobody out there with a freight

00:58:27.520 --> 00:58:30.216
depot or a truck depot it's all rural

00:58:30.240 --> 00:58:32.696
properties it's not as broad acre as it

00:58:32.720 --> 00:58:34.696
used to be because we've had rules that

00:58:34.720 --> 00:58:37.720
allowed houses to be on these blocks and

00:58:38.319 --> 00:58:40.535
unfortunately this block's not allowed

00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:43.559
to have a house views. Neil impact

00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:50.295
this is unbelievable near impact. Have a

00:58:50.319 --> 00:58:53.319
look at page 70 in your in your papers.

00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:55.976
There's a picture of of our residence

00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:59.000
there which is 385 m away. Our family

00:59:00.799 --> 00:59:03.799
room looks straight at this development.

00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:07.176
One counselor came to look there and

00:59:07.200 --> 00:59:10.200
hear the situation. I don't know that

00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:13.559
town planners have been there. And one

00:59:13.680 --> 00:59:15.976
of the applicants has been there and I

00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:17.976
made sure he sat at the right table so

00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:20.295
that he could see through our windows at

00:59:20.319 --> 00:59:23.319
what he was going to do to the land.

00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:27.000
Like you can't say these things. If if

00:59:28.240 --> 00:59:31.240
the council passes this on this basis,

00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:35.079
you've walked into the big trap. You've

00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:37.976
walked straight into it. But we've

00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:40.216
already dealt with stuff that's we

00:59:40.240 --> 00:59:43.016
haven't complained, but exceeds the

00:59:43.040 --> 00:59:44.535
container level. How many more

00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:47.559
containers are going to be there?

00:59:48.720 --> 00:59:49.496
Now, thank you.

00:59:49.520 --> 00:59:51.335
There's things that we could say, but

00:59:51.359 --> 00:59:54.359
we're not able to say. Thank you.

00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:56.936
Mr. Mention, how close are you to the

00:59:56.960 --> 00:59:59.896
current kerna landfill?

00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:02.696
 my property adjoins it at the south.

01:00:02.720 --> 01:00:05.496
Are you aware that it is going to expand

01:00:05.520 --> 01:00:07.656
in the coming years?

01:00:07.680 --> 01:00:10.680
Um that we received information

01:00:10.720 --> 01:00:13.095
regarding a compost

01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:16.119
thing on the land. Um

01:00:16.160 --> 01:00:19.160
 200 m by 100. Um, that's the land

01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:23.335
where we found the earless dragons and

01:00:23.359 --> 01:00:25.176
the legless lizards.

01:00:25.200 --> 01:00:28.200
Are you aware as well that there's a

01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:31.880
roughly 40 acre block immediately to the

01:00:32.240 --> 01:00:33.815
east of the current landfill that is

01:00:33.839 --> 01:00:36.216
slated to be the landfill expansion?

01:00:36.240 --> 01:00:37.335
Have you ever heard of that?

01:00:37.359 --> 01:00:40.359
Well, that's the that that's the land. I

01:00:41.040 --> 01:00:43.176
haven't heard it to become a landfill,

01:00:43.200 --> 01:00:45.176
but that's the land where you propose

01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:48.200
the compost thing as well.

01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:49.016
Yeah,

01:00:49.040 --> 01:00:50.775
it's not currently activated, but we're

01:00:50.799 --> 01:00:51.896
looking at it at the moment.

01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:54.456
We've lived with what's there because we

01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:56.936
knew it was there. It doesn't matter

01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:59.575
that the tip exceeds the council

01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:02.599
building height in the recent years.

01:01:02.799 --> 01:01:05.799
You've gone past your building height

01:01:06.319 --> 01:01:09.256
there. But we haven't complained because

01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:12.055
we're happy in our existence there. But

01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:14.535
this is going to be unbelievable.

01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:16.616
like the the dust, the noise, the

01:01:16.640 --> 01:01:18.936
trucks, the lighting is just going to be

01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:21.496
unbelievable. And the deficiencies in

01:01:21.520 --> 01:01:24.520
here, you you have to sit down and read

01:01:24.720 --> 01:01:27.720
it. Nothing about toilets, nothing about

01:01:27.839 --> 01:01:30.535
buildings, nothing about water. It's

01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:32.696
none of it's there.

01:01:32.720 --> 01:01:35.095
Thanks, Tom. I appreciate your time.

01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:36.216
Thank you so much.

01:01:36.240 --> 01:01:37.656
Well, I appreciate it.

01:01:37.680 --> 01:01:40.136
Thank you. I would if I could just say

01:01:40.160 --> 01:01:43.160
at 6:30 yesterday morning I did get out

01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:45.176
of bed and go for a walk around the

01:01:45.200 --> 01:01:46.936
garden and I was looking towards that

01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:48.535
block.

01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:51.416
There wasn't a sound. There wasn't even

01:01:51.440 --> 01:01:54.216
a bull roaring up at MBY.

01:01:54.240 --> 01:01:56.616
There wasn't a sound. I said to Barbara,

01:01:56.640 --> 01:01:58.696
I said, "You know what? If there's a bad

01:01:58.720 --> 01:02:01.095
decision or a wrong decision, we we're

01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:03.815
finished. They're all over."

01:02:03.839 --> 01:02:05.976
All right. Our Thank you so much. Our

01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:07.976
fourth speaker today is Howard Charles.

01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:10.216
Howard, you have your five minutes. I'll

01:02:10.240 --> 01:02:11.656
ring the bell at 4 minutes 30. If you

01:02:11.680 --> 01:02:12.696
can please let us know the topic. You

01:02:12.720 --> 01:02:15.095
could talk in on for against and if you

01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:17.095
can finish your statement at 4 minutes

01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:20.119
30.

01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:23.016
Oh, sorry. Finish off after 4 minutes

01:02:23.040 --> 01:02:24.936
30.

01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:27.960
Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Councilors, um, it's

01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:30.136
great to be back. I'm speaking I think

01:02:30.160 --> 01:02:32.696
it's 911. Is that correct?

01:02:32.720 --> 01:02:33.815
Yes, that's correct.

01:02:33.839 --> 01:02:36.456
Thank you.  and the recommendation is

01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:39.416
that um to to move ahead and and allow

01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:41.416
access in consultation with the

01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:44.055
community and  I'm very much

01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:47.079
supporting motion.  just a very brief

01:02:47.520 --> 01:02:50.520
history of of the Lake Wallace project.

01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:53.960
Um because I think what what I mean I I

01:02:56.640 --> 01:02:59.496
devised the concept of of building cuz

01:02:59.520 --> 01:03:01.976
we had built a similar lake on our

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:05.000
property which was very successful and

01:03:05.040 --> 01:03:07.656
Nimbel was struggling really struggling

01:03:07.680 --> 01:03:09.496
level six water restrictions every

01:03:09.520 --> 01:03:11.736
summer through those dry years in in the

01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:14.760
naughties. It was really hard. And in

01:03:15.200 --> 01:03:17.976
2005, John Olock, one of the original

01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:20.936
presidents of NAG, and I went and viewed

01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:23.496
the site on Figuring Creek and said,

01:03:23.520 --> 01:03:26.376
"Yes, this would work." , and we took

01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:29.400
Gary Nan there, and um he he being an

01:03:30.160 --> 01:03:31.976
old surveyor, he knew exactly what had

01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:33.335
happened. He said, "Yes, this would be a

01:03:33.359 --> 01:03:36.359
perfect spot for a dam." Um obviously

01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:40.119
the town needed water and um this you

01:03:42.640 --> 01:03:44.775
know obviously is is a change to to

01:03:44.799 --> 01:03:46.856
water use. So the first people I spoke

01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:48.936
to before I even went to Nag that's

01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:51.095
that's the photo I brought into the

01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:52.696
council to say look that's what the

01:03:52.720 --> 01:03:54.216
river's like present.

01:03:54.240 --> 01:03:55.416
Oh

01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:57.176
and that was in on the date there in

01:03:57.200 --> 01:04:00.136
2004. I brought that into council and

01:04:00.160 --> 01:04:01.575
they said yeah well we better do

01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:04.599
something. And um the first people I

01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:07.335
spoke to were the Monero climatization

01:04:07.359 --> 01:04:09.335
society who are the organization that

01:04:09.359 --> 01:04:11.095
handle all the trout fishing throughout

01:04:11.119 --> 01:04:14.119
Monero. A very respected and responsible

01:04:14.480 --> 01:04:16.775
organization. They've just spent I'd

01:04:16.799 --> 01:04:18.775
like it back please at the end. Um

01:04:18.799 --> 01:04:21.416
they've just spent $13 million up at the

01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:24.440
Gayen Hatchery. um that they they do do,

01:04:25.200 --> 01:04:26.775
you know, a really good job looking

01:04:26.799 --> 01:04:29.799
after the river. And the point I want to

01:04:30.160 --> 01:04:31.976
make just slight correction on the

01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:35.000
report, the Lake Wallace was always

01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:39.480
about the river and the town, not just

01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:41.656
about the town.

01:04:41.680 --> 01:04:44.680
Nimbabel gets its water from the river,

01:04:45.200 --> 01:04:47.976
not the lake. It gets its water from the

01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.696
river. what the lake is there to do is

01:04:50.720 --> 01:04:53.496
to um make sure that there is a flow in

01:04:53.520 --> 01:04:55.335
the river and as I say that's why that

01:04:55.359 --> 01:04:57.736
photo I think is so important because

01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:00.760
that that's what it was always about um

01:05:01.119 --> 01:05:04.119
angling is a is a is a hund00 million

01:05:04.319 --> 01:05:06.216
industry I think that contribution to

01:05:06.240 --> 01:05:08.535
Monero it's a huge thing it's much

01:05:08.559 --> 01:05:11.015
bigger than people realize

01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:14.039
and um just briefly so going there then

01:05:15.520 --> 01:05:17.656
could see how good it was he he promised

01:05:17.680 --> 01:05:20.136
us half a million dollars and and gave

01:05:20.160 --> 01:05:22.696
us $50,000 for the feasibility study.

01:05:22.720 --> 01:05:24.616
Well, he didn't survive the next

01:05:24.640 --> 01:05:26.456
election, but I'm pleased to say that

01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:28.696
Mike Kelly did then give us the half

01:05:28.720 --> 01:05:31.176
million dollars. But still, the council

01:05:31.200 --> 01:05:34.200
wasn't very keen until 2009.

01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:36.376
I said to the council, look, come and

01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:38.936
have a look at our dab. It's much more

01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:41.335
than just a dab. And I'll never forget

01:05:41.359 --> 01:05:44.359
this was in as I said 2009. Vin good

01:05:44.480 --> 01:05:46.775
turned to me and he said how if this is

01:05:46.799 --> 01:05:49.656
what you're talking about you've won me

01:05:49.680 --> 01:05:51.656
and and that's when then they started to

01:05:51.680 --> 01:05:54.456
get  carried away and work on it. Nag

01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.696
had done a huge amount of work on this.

01:05:56.720 --> 01:05:58.376
I mean that's David Weeks how many

01:05:58.400 --> 01:06:00.535
letters he wrote and it will go on

01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:02.295
forever and the late Richard Lawson had

01:06:02.319 --> 01:06:03.976
been coming into these meetings for a

01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:07.000
long time. And so from 2010 2013

01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:10.295
environmental studies were carried out

01:06:10.319 --> 01:06:13.319
in great detail. And in 2014, John

01:06:13.839 --> 01:06:16.616
Barlaro came up and promised the council

01:06:16.640 --> 01:06:19.640
5.3 million to um to build Lake Wallace,

01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:24.055
which was wonderful. And so there was a

01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:27.079
sod turning ceremony in in the start of

01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:30.280
2015.  John was there, the deputy

01:06:30.559 --> 01:06:33.256
premier Troy Grant was there, Mayor Dean

01:06:33.280 --> 01:06:35.815
Lynch at that stage and they talked

01:06:35.839 --> 01:06:37.416
about the great fishing that this

01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:40.440
project would be and

01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:43.335
you can remember it here and Troy Grant

01:06:43.359 --> 01:06:45.416
was really quite enthusiastic about it.

01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:48.440
It was always intended. Um it's been a

01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:52.119
project all along and um as I say they

01:06:52.559 --> 01:06:55.559
put a huge amount into it. the

01:06:56.319 --> 01:06:58.216
um

01:06:58.240 --> 01:07:00.136
the whole point of this is there'll be

01:07:00.160 --> 01:07:03.160
no cost to council. Um I as a farmer I

01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:07.976
just want to say I really do appreciate

01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:09.815
the trout industry because if I'm

01:07:09.839 --> 01:07:11.976
running my farm properly the country's

01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:13.575
in good health, the water's in good

01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:15.335
health, the fish will be in good health

01:07:15.359 --> 01:07:17.176
and it's an indicator. I call it the

01:07:17.200 --> 01:07:19.976
canary in the coal mine. It's the most

01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:22.775
important thing. So I think it's really

01:07:22.799 --> 01:07:24.295
good for the town. I know that people

01:07:24.319 --> 01:07:25.736
like the owner of the hotel and the

01:07:25.760 --> 01:07:28.760
motel really much in favor. Yep. Thank

01:07:29.359 --> 01:07:30.136
you.

01:07:30.160 --> 01:07:32.456
Thank you. Appreciate. Any questions?

01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:33.575
Council F.

01:07:33.599 --> 01:07:35.815
 I'll give a disclaimer as well that I

01:07:35.839 --> 01:07:37.976
was a member of the water community at

01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:40.055
Nag for some years. Wasn't I Mr.

01:07:40.079 --> 01:07:40.535
Charles?

01:07:40.559 --> 01:07:42.055
Yes, but not while we were doing this

01:07:42.079 --> 01:07:42.616
original.

01:07:42.640 --> 01:07:44.936
Yes, I was.

01:07:44.960 --> 01:07:46.216
Have you got any idea?

01:07:46.240 --> 01:07:46.936
Here.

01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:49.960
Yes, I was. I came to Nabel in 2009.

01:07:51.520 --> 01:07:54.520
Any idea? Any idea of the Do you have

01:07:56.799 --> 01:07:59.799
any idea of the capital required to do

01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:01.896
this project?

01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:02.535
Yes.

01:08:02.559 --> 01:08:03.335
How much?

01:08:03.359 --> 01:08:05.736
Yes. We we could have done as a farm dam

01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:07.496
for a bit over a million dollars.

01:08:07.520 --> 01:08:09.815
I'm sorry. No, the fishing aspect, your

01:08:09.839 --> 01:08:11.815
recreational fishing aspect. What is the

01:08:11.839 --> 01:08:14.839
capital requirement for that project?

01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:17.255
Well, that's not a capital requirement,

01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:19.016
but once you've got the down, the water

01:08:19.040 --> 01:08:21.255
trickles down the existing water course,

01:08:21.279 --> 01:08:23.255
which I might add, there's an expert

01:08:23.279 --> 01:08:25.016
report shows it's a wonderful way to

01:08:25.040 --> 01:08:26.695
clean the water, trickle it down,

01:08:26.719 --> 01:08:29.719
exposed to the sunshine and so on. And

01:08:30.080 --> 01:08:32.536
so once that's there, keeping the river

01:08:32.560 --> 01:08:34.135
flowing is the way you keep the fishing

01:08:34.159 --> 01:08:36.616
going. I mean, fishing penguin fishing

01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:39.016
is around the river and has been

01:08:39.040 --> 01:08:41.815
forever. Nville gets its water from the

01:08:41.839 --> 01:08:44.839
river. There is not a town on an era

01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:47.496
that doesn't get its water from

01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:50.520
somewhere with trout. Not one town.

01:08:50.719 --> 01:08:53.719
So would there need to be a car park, a

01:08:53.920 --> 01:08:54.456
toilet?

01:08:54.480 --> 01:08:57.480
No. No. The anglers would park outside

01:08:57.679 --> 01:09:00.215
and they walk over the style and come

01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:02.695
in. But the point being that if the

01:09:02.719 --> 01:09:05.576
council, the Monero climatization

01:09:05.600 --> 01:09:07.255
societies, there's a style required,

01:09:07.279 --> 01:09:09.255
they will do it. They're happy to work

01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:12.279
with the council and happy they've said

01:09:12.480 --> 01:09:14.295
that there won't be any cost to council

01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:16.616
because they would do and they be able

01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:18.536
to get funding to do whatever is

01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:20.456
required just to allow the anglers

01:09:20.480 --> 01:09:21.655
access.

01:09:21.679 --> 01:09:24.215
What would be the extra financial

01:09:24.239 --> 01:09:26.215
contribution to the community from this

01:09:26.239 --> 01:09:28.936
dam above the circuit 100 million

01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:31.096
already contributed annually now that

01:09:31.120 --> 01:09:34.120
you've told us? Look, um I think it will

01:09:34.880 --> 01:09:37.735
be one of the best fishing sites on

01:09:37.759 --> 01:09:39.976
Monera because it's cold. It's a

01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:42.616
beautiful cold area for trout. It's if

01:09:42.640 --> 01:09:45.640
if there are any problems with

01:09:45.759 --> 01:09:47.896
contamination of either a gender on the

01:09:47.920 --> 01:09:50.376
Yukamid from the snowy skin. I hope

01:09:50.400 --> 01:09:52.536
they're not. They're not going to happen

01:09:52.560 --> 01:09:54.616
on Lake Wallace. Lake Wallace is

01:09:54.640 --> 01:09:57.416
beautifully pure and clean and it I can

01:09:57.440 --> 01:09:58.616
tell you it'll be one of the best

01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:01.640
fishing sites on the net. And  did you

01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:03.736
hear about the blue green algae that we

01:10:03.760 --> 01:10:04.695
had last summer?

01:10:04.719 --> 01:10:06.695
Yes. And I've had blue green algae in

01:10:06.719 --> 01:10:09.175
our dam too, but that that gets cleaned

01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:12.199
up and  and and I know that the lake

01:10:13.360 --> 01:10:15.896
on our property is still now has

01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:18.856
beautiful trout. Yeah. And and on that

01:10:18.880 --> 01:10:21.016
side so does Lake Wallace. I mean the

01:10:21.040 --> 01:10:24.040
fish are already in Lake Wallace and um

01:10:24.800 --> 01:10:27.016
I know people sneak in there. I know

01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:29.256
it's illegal at this stage, but I I've

01:10:29.280 --> 01:10:31.736
talked to Mark, the water man who goes

01:10:31.760 --> 01:10:33.576
down and looks after things and he's

01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:36.600
seen them sneaking away. Um, but look,

01:10:36.719 --> 01:10:39.719
it's it will be a great asset for me

01:10:41.040 --> 01:10:43.816
council summits. Just a clarification,

01:10:43.840 --> 01:10:44.135
yes,

01:10:44.159 --> 01:10:47.159
the Wallace lake itself is a um backup

01:10:49.280 --> 01:10:50.056
storage.

01:10:50.080 --> 01:10:50.536
Yes.

01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:51.576
For the town

01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:52.856
for for the river

01:10:52.880 --> 01:10:54.695
or for the river if the river runs

01:10:54.719 --> 01:10:56.856
wrong. Well, it keeps the river flowing.

01:10:56.880 --> 01:10:58.296
I mean, pig

01:10:58.320 --> 01:10:59.896
Yeah, pig. Well, it's part of the river.

01:10:59.920 --> 01:11:01.655
I mean, the map the map in in your

01:11:01.679 --> 01:11:03.816
report is good. The river is where the

01:11:03.840 --> 01:11:06.135
river flows and it goes way back back up

01:11:06.159 --> 01:11:09.159
into the bush. Um, it's been affected in

01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:11.016
that role.

01:11:11.040 --> 01:11:12.776
Yes, it has. And the last drought that

01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:15.800
we had in 1920 when we had really severe

01:11:16.320 --> 01:11:19.320
drought, I think it dropped to 2/3

01:11:19.679 --> 01:11:22.679
like Wallace and which was terrific. I

01:11:22.800 --> 01:11:25.800
mean it really it really made Nimbabel

01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:28.215
secure and I tell you Nimbel's now

01:11:28.239 --> 01:11:30.536
growing again. It was I mean what

01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:32.856
happened to people I felt for them. They

01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:34.776
had gardens and they were allowed to

01:11:34.800 --> 01:11:37.496
stand in a bucket to wash and then dip

01:11:37.520 --> 01:11:40.456
that bucket down the level or so gardens

01:11:40.480 --> 01:11:42.056
died and this just transformed the

01:11:42.080 --> 01:11:44.376
towns.

01:11:44.400 --> 01:11:47.400
Council um Mr. Charles I I think you

01:11:47.679 --> 01:11:49.976
made a great case for the great work

01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:52.856
that you folks did out there. I think

01:11:52.880 --> 01:11:55.416
there's a some problematic issues only

01:11:55.440 --> 01:11:58.440
that we've had a a letter from the

01:12:00.239 --> 01:12:02.695
Chamber of Commerce president that says

01:12:02.719 --> 01:12:05.416
and I just read the question so I can

01:12:05.440 --> 01:12:06.936
read the statement so you can tell me

01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:08.376
whether you agree with it. It says while

01:12:08.400 --> 01:12:10.296
this while the Monero Climatization

01:12:10.320 --> 01:12:12.856
Scientist Society's request and the

01:12:12.880 --> 01:12:15.175
community's interest in the recreational

01:12:15.199 --> 01:12:17.496
fishing is appreciated, the legal

01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:20.296
framework protecting Lake Wallace,

01:12:20.320 --> 01:12:22.856
Pigring Creek, and the endangered Snowy

01:12:22.880 --> 01:12:24.936
River aquatic ecological community

01:12:24.960 --> 01:12:27.816
presents insurmountable barriers to the

01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:30.840
proposal as currently conceived.

01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:33.880
Yeah, that's the detail that you've

01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:36.135
probably seen, but you you would agree

01:12:36.159 --> 01:12:38.776
or disagree with that. I I'd query the

01:12:38.800 --> 01:12:41.800
word insurmountable problems. The um the

01:12:42.320 --> 01:12:44.456
president and the office of the Monero

01:12:44.480 --> 01:12:47.096
climatization society have spoken to

01:12:47.120 --> 01:12:49.736
government officers in environment and

01:12:49.760 --> 01:12:51.736
fishing and so on and they are

01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:53.816
absolutely confident that we would be

01:12:53.840 --> 01:12:55.175
able to get the changes that are

01:12:55.199 --> 01:12:57.416
required. It's actually a council

01:12:57.440 --> 01:13:00.440
decision to prevent  anglers going in.

01:13:00.960 --> 01:13:02.536
It's not an environmental decision. It's

01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:05.496
a council decision and council agreed to

01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:08.135
review it in 5 years and that was nearly

01:13:08.159 --> 01:13:11.016
10 years ago 10 years next year. So it

01:13:11.040 --> 01:13:14.040
is certainly up for review and I think

01:13:14.080 --> 01:13:16.135
if  if the council officers work with

01:13:16.159 --> 01:13:18.776
the Monero Climatization Society as as

01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:21.256
the motion is recommended I don't think

01:13:21.280 --> 01:13:23.816
they'll have too much trouble and as I

01:13:23.840 --> 01:13:25.576
stress they're happy to to find the

01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:28.135
funding that's required.

01:13:28.159 --> 01:13:29.655
Thank you. And I certainly know in some

01:13:29.679 --> 01:13:31.096
of the chamber of commerce people they

01:13:31.120 --> 01:13:33.336
would not be supporting that letter.

01:13:33.360 --> 01:13:34.856
Councelor Rainey.

01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:37.096
Well, thank you for your presentation.

01:13:37.120 --> 01:13:39.416
 do you or does the Monero

01:13:39.440 --> 01:13:42.440
acclimatization society have an estimate

01:13:42.719 --> 01:13:45.719
of  how many  fishermen a year this

01:13:46.640 --> 01:13:49.175
 facility would would attract and what

01:13:49.199 --> 01:13:52.056
that might translate to in terms of

01:13:52.080 --> 01:13:55.080
additional business income for Nitel in

01:13:55.360 --> 01:13:57.816
the form of say overnight stays  you

01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:00.296
know food petrol supplies and that sort

01:14:00.320 --> 01:14:03.320
of thing. I I haven't all I can say is

01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:05.976
that the motel back in John Kilpstein

01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:07.816
was full the whole time with trap

01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:09.976
fisherman. He made his bit made that his

01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:12.376
business and and he guided and it was a

01:14:12.400 --> 01:14:14.695
huge success. I'm quite sure both the

01:14:14.719 --> 01:14:17.256
coffee shops um who you know more than

01:14:17.280 --> 01:14:18.776
just coffee with food and so on would

01:14:18.800 --> 01:14:21.736
benefit hugely. I know the hotel and the

01:14:21.760 --> 01:14:24.616
motel owner is very much in favor of

01:14:24.640 --> 01:14:26.695
what we're trying to do. I mean fishing

01:14:26.719 --> 01:14:28.616
has always been a big part of the bill's

01:14:28.640 --> 01:14:30.616
history. beautiful big trout up on the

01:14:30.640 --> 01:14:33.256
wall in the pub and um yeah he's always

01:14:33.280 --> 01:14:35.896
been a big part of the town.

01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:37.896
Thank you. Thank you so much for your

01:14:37.920 --> 01:14:39.256
time. Really appreciate it.

01:14:39.280 --> 01:14:41.416
Thank you council.

01:14:41.440 --> 01:14:44.056
Our fifth speaker today is  Suzanne

01:14:44.080 --> 01:14:45.976
Sh.

01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:48.695
So you have five minutes. I if you can

01:14:48.719 --> 01:14:49.736
just let us know the topic you're

01:14:49.760 --> 01:14:52.695
talking on for or against. Um and I'll

01:14:52.719 --> 01:14:54.215
ring the bell. 4 minutes 30. If you can

01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:55.816
just finish off your last statement. And

01:14:55.840 --> 01:14:58.840
we do have your photos online. also

01:14:59.199 --> 01:15:00.695
obtessed.

01:15:00.719 --> 01:15:03.096
 thank you Mayor and counselors for

01:15:03.120 --> 01:15:06.120
letting me come and speak today. I am

01:15:06.159 --> 01:15:09.096
talking against the proposed freight

01:15:09.120 --> 01:15:12.120
transport facility at lot 307 and 308

01:15:12.800 --> 01:15:15.016
Colaminda Road.

01:15:15.040 --> 01:15:18.040
I purchased the property known as the

01:15:18.159 --> 01:15:21.159
Willows which is the original homestead

01:15:22.159 --> 01:15:24.856
for most of the land that surrounds that

01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:27.880
area. It now sits on 7 acres.

01:15:28.960 --> 01:15:31.960
Um, and when the house was commissioned

01:15:33.040 --> 01:15:36.040
back in 1893,

01:15:36.159 --> 01:15:38.135
they could have built the house anywhere

01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:41.159
on thousands of acres, but they chose to

01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:44.936
have it right where it is now because it

01:15:44.960 --> 01:15:47.960
had excellent access to water.

01:15:49.280 --> 01:15:52.280
the surrounding land. I have one spring

01:15:52.480 --> 01:15:54.616
on my property

01:15:54.640 --> 01:15:57.416
and just around

01:15:57.440 --> 01:15:59.496
my boundaries

01:15:59.520 --> 01:16:02.215
there are numerous springs. I've spoken

01:16:02.239 --> 01:16:05.096
to people that lived there a number of

01:16:05.120 --> 01:16:08.056
years ago and there were water towers

01:16:08.080 --> 01:16:10.056
all over the property where they pumped

01:16:10.080 --> 01:16:11.976
from the springs up into the water

01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:13.576
towers.

01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:16.600
I that's that's my house. Um, it's as

01:16:17.679 --> 01:16:20.679
far as a visual impact to have further

01:16:21.199 --> 01:16:24.135
industrial land. I tried to get solar

01:16:24.159 --> 01:16:27.159
panels put onto my house. Wasn't allowed

01:16:27.920 --> 01:16:29.576
to do it because it's historically

01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:31.655
listed.

01:16:31.679 --> 01:16:33.416
Came down, they said, "Put it out on the

01:16:33.440 --> 01:16:36.440
barn. The barn is 130 years old. You

01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:39.416
can't support solar panels." I finally

01:16:39.440 --> 01:16:41.816
came to the solution that I could put it

01:16:41.840 --> 01:16:44.840
in the front yard, but the regulations

01:16:45.600 --> 01:16:47.736
require me to have a 2 m high fence

01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:50.695
around the solar panels. Council said to

01:16:50.719 --> 01:16:53.719
me, "You can't possibly do that. It's

01:16:54.239 --> 01:16:57.096
historically listed."

01:16:57.120 --> 01:17:00.120
So, we came to a compromise.

01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:02.296
But

01:17:02.320 --> 01:17:05.175
recently when I'd met the family that

01:17:05.199 --> 01:17:08.199
had lived there, they'd also talked

01:17:08.239 --> 01:17:10.215
about

01:17:10.239 --> 01:17:12.776
um the cellar, but I'll come back to

01:17:12.800 --> 01:17:14.856
that. If we flick to a couple of the

01:17:14.880 --> 01:17:17.880
next photos, this is a rain event that

01:17:18.080 --> 01:17:21.080
happened on the 13th of January, 2024.

01:17:22.080 --> 01:17:24.936
And you can flick through a few more.

01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:26.936
This is right in front of my house.

01:17:26.960 --> 01:17:28.936
That's the corner boundary, the corner

01:17:28.960 --> 01:17:31.960
post of my ver. This is a water course

01:17:32.640 --> 01:17:35.640
that runs straight through from lot the

01:17:36.239 --> 01:17:38.616
lots that are proposed through my

01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:40.776
neighbor's property and then into mine

01:17:40.800 --> 01:17:42.856
and then that goes into the spring and

01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:45.880
into underground water. And you can keep

01:17:46.080 --> 01:17:48.135
flicking through.

01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:51.159
This is just one one rain event.

01:17:52.480 --> 01:17:54.776
And the people that built the property

01:17:54.800 --> 01:17:57.800
originally put big pipes in the road to

01:17:58.640 --> 01:18:01.096
allow the water to transfer. And we're

01:18:01.120 --> 01:18:04.120
talking back in 1893

01:18:04.320 --> 01:18:06.456
where they did already put the pipes in.

01:18:06.480 --> 01:18:08.776
I've had to rectify it because they've

01:18:08.800 --> 01:18:10.616
collapsed with age and the amount of

01:18:10.640 --> 01:18:12.296
water that's come through them over the

01:18:12.320 --> 01:18:15.320
years. So,

01:18:15.440 --> 01:18:18.440
but the hydrarology report

01:18:19.360 --> 01:18:22.135
doesn't show any of this. Nothing at

01:18:22.159 --> 01:18:25.159
all. It shows it outside the boundary of

01:18:25.199 --> 01:18:27.976
my property. This is right outside my

01:18:28.000 --> 01:18:30.456
bedroom window.

01:18:30.480 --> 01:18:33.480
That's what I see. And the seller, which

01:18:35.600 --> 01:18:37.736
will come up. This is the cellar. This

01:18:37.760 --> 01:18:40.456
is in my cellar in the house in the

01:18:40.480 --> 01:18:42.376
middle of the house. The previous owners

01:18:42.400 --> 01:18:44.856
put these markers on the wall of where

01:18:44.880 --> 01:18:47.880
the groundwater rises to, which is my

01:18:48.480 --> 01:18:51.480
chest height. 2020

01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:54.920
2012 at the top and February 2022.

01:18:55.679 --> 01:18:58.679
I bought the property in April 22 and

01:18:58.800 --> 01:19:01.416
the rest of 2022 I spent pumping the

01:19:01.440 --> 01:19:04.056
sitter out constantly.

01:19:04.080 --> 01:19:07.080
But that water this this is actually a

01:19:07.360 --> 01:19:09.496
sample of water that I took and I've

01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:11.576
never done anything with it, but it's

01:19:11.600 --> 01:19:14.600
crystal clear. Any contamination that

01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:17.640
comes off those two lots will go

01:19:17.760 --> 01:19:20.215
underground,

01:19:20.239 --> 01:19:23.239
come straight through my house

01:19:24.480 --> 01:19:27.480
and then into the subwater that goes

01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:29.655
into town

01:19:29.679 --> 01:19:32.679
and all of that will be contaminated.

01:19:33.679 --> 01:19:36.679
And the fact that the report

01:19:37.120 --> 01:19:40.056
hasn't taken into consideration that

01:19:40.080 --> 01:19:43.080
there is any water there at all is just

01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:46.296
a bit of a joke. There's about that much

01:19:46.320 --> 01:19:48.936
of a report. It shows all the water

01:19:48.960 --> 01:19:51.960
courses outside of my property and says

01:19:52.159 --> 01:19:54.135
that my property is not affected by

01:19:54.159 --> 01:19:57.159
water at all, nor the majority of lot

01:19:57.679 --> 01:20:00.679
307 and 308. I could go on with a lot of

01:20:01.280 --> 01:20:03.976
other things. Dons also could go on with

01:20:04.000 --> 01:20:06.936
a lot of things, but this is something

01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:09.960
that impacts me directly.

01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:13.000
It goes right underneath my house. And

01:20:13.199 --> 01:20:16.199
the next photo, um, just in between

01:20:16.880 --> 01:20:19.880
behind the steps, there's a markings on

01:20:20.080 --> 01:20:22.616
the wall. That's the cellar that fills

01:20:22.640 --> 01:20:25.640
up with water.

01:20:26.960 --> 01:20:29.256
And yet there's nothing mentioned about

01:20:29.280 --> 01:20:31.816
any water that's going to impact either

01:20:31.840 --> 01:20:34.840
my neighbors property or mine or where

01:20:35.120 --> 01:20:37.175
that's going to travel and it's it will

01:20:37.199 --> 01:20:40.199
be contaminated.

01:20:40.480 --> 01:20:41.175
Thank you.

01:20:41.199 --> 01:20:42.135
Thank you very much.

01:20:42.159 --> 01:20:43.896
And thanks for that. Any questions

01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:46.920
counselors? Councelor Fon, is your

01:20:47.280 --> 01:20:50.280
property downhill down slope and

01:20:50.719 --> 01:20:52.695
downream?

01:20:52.719 --> 01:20:55.096
Yes, it's to the west.

01:20:55.120 --> 01:20:56.296
Right.

01:20:56.320 --> 01:20:56.695
So

01:20:56.719 --> 01:20:57.896
you're on cud side.

01:20:57.920 --> 01:21:00.920
Yes, correct.

01:21:01.760 --> 01:21:04.760
Thank you. Any further questions?

01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:06.135
Thank you so much. Really appreciate

01:21:06.159 --> 01:21:06.776
your time.

01:21:06.800 --> 01:21:08.215
Thank you very much.

01:21:08.239 --> 01:21:11.239
Our six speaker today is Jane Hton.

01:21:12.159 --> 01:21:14.135
Jane, you have five minutes. If you can

01:21:14.159 --> 01:21:15.736
please let us know the topic you're

01:21:15.760 --> 01:21:18.215
talking on, for or against.  and

01:21:18.239 --> 01:21:19.736
honoring the bill at 4 minutes 30. If

01:21:19.760 --> 01:21:20.776
you can just finish off your last

01:21:20.800 --> 01:21:22.056
statement after that would be great.

01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:23.336
Thank you.

01:21:23.360 --> 01:21:25.336
Thank you, Mayor. And thank you

01:21:25.360 --> 01:21:28.135
councilors. I'm speaking on item item

01:21:28.159 --> 01:21:30.856
8.3 the alpine quarry to support the

01:21:30.880 --> 01:21:32.776
recommendation of staff to reject the

01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:34.456
proposal.

01:21:34.480 --> 01:21:36.296
 can I say I've had a family

01:21:36.320 --> 01:21:37.976
connection to this area for over 50

01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:39.816
years since we immigrated to Australia.

01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:41.576
I've been a property owner in this area

01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:43.816
for 40 years. Indeed my father was a

01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:46.376
commissioner for the snowy hydro. I make

01:21:46.400 --> 01:21:48.695
these comments in the context of being a

01:21:48.719 --> 01:21:50.936
land owner directly affected. I make

01:21:50.960 --> 01:21:52.615
them in the context of having worked for

01:21:52.639 --> 01:21:54.536
33 years with legislation, with

01:21:54.560 --> 01:21:56.936
administrative law, and having dealt a

01:21:56.960 --> 01:21:59.736
lot with lawyers. I also have to tell

01:21:59.760 --> 01:22:01.976
you I've taken a lot of legal advice

01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:04.296
about this. My remarks are founded in

01:22:04.320 --> 01:22:07.096
that context. At the outset, my advice

01:22:07.120 --> 01:22:10.120
is extremely clear. This DA expired on

01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:13.416
the 1st of December. There is no

01:22:13.440 --> 01:22:16.135
legislation. There is no provision that

01:22:16.159 --> 01:22:18.456
enables it now to be revitalized. And

01:22:18.480 --> 01:22:20.296
there is no legal precedent that does

01:22:20.320 --> 01:22:23.175
that. If it had been extended, it needed

01:22:23.199 --> 01:22:25.336
to have occurred before the 1st of

01:22:25.360 --> 01:22:27.496
December when it was still live. And as

01:22:27.520 --> 01:22:30.376
the recommendations from the staff show,

01:22:30.400 --> 01:22:32.056
even if it had come forward in that

01:22:32.080 --> 01:22:34.615
context, it is not substantially the

01:22:34.639 --> 01:22:37.496
same development. It it is not currently

01:22:37.520 --> 01:22:40.456
permitted use in the zone, but most

01:22:40.480 --> 01:22:42.296
importantly, it is not the same

01:22:42.320 --> 01:22:45.256
development.  we moved to Black Sully

01:22:45.280 --> 01:22:47.336
Lane from Ginderbine to get away from

01:22:47.360 --> 01:22:50.360
the noise.  we knew about the quarry.

01:22:51.440 --> 01:22:53.016
We also knew the conditions that

01:22:53.040 --> 01:22:56.040
attached to the quarry. 25 dibels at any

01:22:56.159 --> 01:22:57.655
non-involved

01:22:57.679 --> 01:23:00.679
 receiver. That means us 206,000

01:23:02.400 --> 01:23:05.096
BCM. Times that by 2.7 to get the

01:23:05.120 --> 01:23:08.120
tonnage.  we bought our property in

01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:11.560
2016. The DCP was changed in 2013

01:23:13.679 --> 01:23:16.679
and  our  construction was approved

01:23:17.600 --> 01:23:20.600
in 2018. That's relevant because  in

01:23:22.800 --> 01:23:25.800
2018 the ownership changed.

01:23:26.239 --> 01:23:29.239
 similarly in 2018 this council not

01:23:30.800 --> 01:23:33.800
all of you  received advice from a

01:23:33.840 --> 01:23:36.376
lawyer in respect to an application to

01:23:36.400 --> 01:23:38.695
extend aquar which basically did not

01:23:38.719 --> 01:23:41.096
include volumes. That advice said it

01:23:41.120 --> 01:23:44.056
would be an legal error to approve that

01:23:44.080 --> 01:23:45.976
development. That application was made

01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:48.135
by McMahons. So they knew that this was

01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:50.776
a legal requirement and  that

01:23:50.800 --> 01:23:53.800
application was subsequently refused.

01:23:53.840 --> 01:23:56.536
So the dates here are very relevant. Who

01:23:56.560 --> 01:23:58.695
bought, who knew, and when things

01:23:58.719 --> 01:24:01.719
changed. I have to tell you that the

01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:05.000
experience of excessive noise, dust,

01:24:06.639 --> 01:24:08.296
truck movements which are truly

01:24:08.320 --> 01:24:11.256
extraordinary, blasting with no notice

01:24:11.280 --> 01:24:13.016
to anybody in the region. I have to tell

01:24:13.040 --> 01:24:14.856
you on one occasion recently, I was

01:24:14.880 --> 01:24:17.880
literally 300 meters from the quarry pit

01:24:18.320 --> 01:24:21.320
and boom, off went an explosion. No

01:24:21.600 --> 01:24:23.896
audible warning at all. If there had

01:24:23.920 --> 01:24:25.976
been fly off coming my way, well, that

01:24:26.000 --> 01:24:28.215
would have been not very good. There are

01:24:28.239 --> 01:24:30.456
many comments in the objections about

01:24:30.480 --> 01:24:32.695
the trucks and the implications for

01:24:32.719 --> 01:24:35.719
people on the Alpine way.

01:24:35.760 --> 01:24:37.976
You will have received it is in the

01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:40.776
objections attached to  the

01:24:40.800 --> 01:24:42.936
submissions that you were in your papers

01:24:42.960 --> 01:24:45.960
legal advice from the 9th of October.

01:24:46.239 --> 01:24:48.856
That legal advice said the application

01:24:48.880 --> 01:24:51.576
was wholly inadequate and you could not

01:24:51.600 --> 01:24:54.456
satisfy yourself that this application

01:24:54.480 --> 01:24:56.296
could be approved. There were no

01:24:56.320 --> 01:24:58.776
volumes. Refer my earlier remarks. It

01:24:58.800 --> 01:25:00.936
was clearly not consistent the current

01:25:00.960 --> 01:25:03.960
form with the approved plans. It is not

01:25:05.040 --> 01:25:08.040
substantially the same and therefore

01:25:08.080 --> 01:25:10.376
they could not do the staff a proper

01:25:10.400 --> 01:25:13.256
assessment. I should also reinforce you

01:25:13.280 --> 01:25:16.280
cannot retrospectively at law approve

01:25:17.280 --> 01:25:19.816
illegal development a change to the form

01:25:19.840 --> 01:25:22.215
of the quarry. Now I want to acknowledge

01:25:22.239 --> 01:25:24.215
that the staff here have been put in a

01:25:24.239 --> 01:25:26.456
very difficult position. They've been

01:25:26.480 --> 01:25:27.816
asked to assess something without

01:25:27.840 --> 01:25:30.376
adequate information. They have sought

01:25:30.400 --> 01:25:32.456
additional information. That additional

01:25:32.480 --> 01:25:34.456
information finished coming in on the

01:25:34.480 --> 01:25:36.776
10th of November. That's really

01:25:36.800 --> 01:25:38.215
difficult for the staff. So I want to

01:25:38.239 --> 01:25:41.239
thank them for keeping on going.  my

01:25:41.280 --> 01:25:43.896
assessment, our advisor's assessment is

01:25:43.920 --> 01:25:46.920
that their assessment is a proper

01:25:47.440 --> 01:25:50.440
application of the planning laws. They

01:25:50.719 --> 01:25:52.936
say clearly it's not substantially the

01:25:52.960 --> 01:25:55.736
same.  they argue that the proponent

01:25:55.760 --> 01:25:58.760
argues it is it's a 433%

01:25:59.040 --> 01:26:02.040
increase in the time frame and  I

01:26:02.080 --> 01:26:05.080
won't go to the volumes here.

01:26:05.360 --> 01:26:07.016
It's not supported by Transport for New

01:26:07.040 --> 01:26:08.856
South Wales. Now on the volumes, I'll

01:26:08.880 --> 01:26:11.016
just deal with this quickly. Mayor. 

01:26:11.040 --> 01:26:14.040
they were approved for 206 at  the

01:26:15.040 --> 01:26:17.096
data they've provided now shows they

01:26:17.120 --> 01:26:18.856
should have had an EPL for at least two

01:26:18.880 --> 01:26:20.536
of the years of operation. They don't

01:26:20.560 --> 01:26:22.856
have one. Their application says they

01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:25.880
want to take 162 BCM. That means it's an

01:26:27.040 --> 01:26:30.040
80,000 BCM increase. But what I would

01:26:30.719 --> 01:26:32.856
say to you is this in conclusion mindful

01:26:32.880 --> 01:26:35.880
of time.  the assessment says this has

01:26:37.840 --> 01:26:40.840
generational impacts. I will be dead in

01:26:40.960 --> 01:26:43.960
40 years time. This is not consistent

01:26:44.000 --> 01:26:47.000
with the law. It is no longer on foot as

01:26:47.040 --> 01:26:49.736
a valid approval and therefore there is

01:26:49.760 --> 01:26:52.215
no basis to approve it. Now I think

01:26:52.239 --> 01:26:53.896
there are reasons why you should reject

01:26:53.920 --> 01:26:56.376
it to acknowledge the work of staff and

01:26:56.400 --> 01:26:58.776
to put it on a sound footing. But I can

01:26:58.800 --> 01:27:01.016
tell you it is not supported by many

01:27:01.040 --> 01:27:03.416
many many in our area. Thank you.

01:27:03.440 --> 01:27:06.440
Thank you. Any questions? Council B. Um,

01:27:07.360 --> 01:27:09.016
Mrs. Halton, thank you for coming in.

01:27:09.040 --> 01:27:12.040
Sorry. Sorry. M or professor or doctor?

01:27:12.800 --> 01:27:15.800
I'm not Ms. That was my mother.

01:27:16.320 --> 01:27:19.096
Okay, Miss Holton, thank you for the

01:27:19.120 --> 01:27:20.456
correction.

01:27:20.480 --> 01:27:22.856
, I do have quite a few questions. I

01:27:22.880 --> 01:27:24.936
appreciate you spoke fast and I wrote a

01:27:24.960 --> 01:27:27.336
lot of notes. I'd be very happy to

01:27:27.360 --> 01:27:29.256
expand. Councelor F.

01:27:29.280 --> 01:27:32.280
Thank you.

01:27:35.760 --> 01:27:38.135
I'll start backwards. How do you know

01:27:38.159 --> 01:27:40.296
that the staff received information on

01:27:40.320 --> 01:27:41.816
the 10th of November?

01:27:41.840 --> 01:27:43.416
Because it's listed in the documents.

01:27:43.440 --> 01:27:45.416
There is a date on the documents that

01:27:45.440 --> 01:27:47.175
are in your documents, council of fail

01:27:47.199 --> 01:27:50.199
that lists the 10th of October. 10th of

01:27:50.320 --> 01:27:51.416
um November.

01:27:51.440 --> 01:27:51.976
Okay.

01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:54.135
So, my assumption is that is an accurate

01:27:54.159 --> 01:27:55.576
date statement.

01:27:55.600 --> 01:27:57.336
Okay.

01:27:57.360 --> 01:28:00.360
And  you're suggesting that they the

01:28:00.639 --> 01:28:03.336
applicant has applied to increase their

01:28:03.360 --> 01:28:05.496
extraction by 80,000 BCM.

01:28:05.520 --> 01:28:08.520
Correct.

01:28:08.719 --> 01:28:10.056
It doesn't appear that they've applied

01:28:10.080 --> 01:28:13.080
to extend it at all in my reading of the

01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:17.000
relying on the original proof amount.

01:28:17.280 --> 01:28:19.096
But if you read the document carefully,

01:28:19.120 --> 01:28:21.655
council, you will see they did an

01:28:21.679 --> 01:28:24.679
analysis with a surveyed volume which

01:28:25.120 --> 01:28:27.655
actually says, and I won't quibble, the

01:28:27.679 --> 01:28:30.679
minimum number they choose is 186,000

01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:34.520
BCM. The 186,000 BCM is what they say as

01:28:35.600 --> 01:28:38.600
residual at the end of 2024.

01:28:39.360 --> 01:28:41.096
Look at the volumes they provided in

01:28:41.120 --> 01:28:43.175
subsequent information. It will tell you

01:28:43.199 --> 01:28:45.096
that there should have been a residual

01:28:45.120 --> 01:28:47.576
against the original approved amount of

01:28:47.600 --> 01:28:49.496
80,000.

01:28:49.520 --> 01:28:52.520
My math says 80,000 taken away from 186

01:28:53.679 --> 01:28:56.679
is over 80,000 additional.

01:28:56.800 --> 01:28:57.976
Right.

01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:00.296
And you're adamant that the DA is not

01:29:00.320 --> 01:29:02.456
substantially the same, but that

01:29:02.480 --> 01:29:04.456
they're only asking for one condition to

01:29:04.480 --> 01:29:06.936
be changed, which is the time frame.

01:29:06.960 --> 01:29:08.536
Well, they might be asking for that, but

01:29:08.560 --> 01:29:11.416
as the assessment  counselor of the

01:29:11.440 --> 01:29:14.440
staff shows very clearly, it is not

01:29:14.560 --> 01:29:16.695
consistent with a whole series of

01:29:16.719 --> 01:29:18.615
requirements. They might have asked for

01:29:18.639 --> 01:29:21.639
only one change that is not what is

01:29:21.679 --> 01:29:24.679
implied by their application.

01:29:24.800 --> 01:29:26.296
But you do accept that they have only

01:29:26.320 --> 01:29:28.215
really made one change, which is the

01:29:28.239 --> 01:29:30.135
temporal time limit. The

01:29:30.159 --> 01:29:32.296
and it would therefore be councelor fail

01:29:32.320 --> 01:29:35.320
on my advice and the error at law to

01:29:35.600 --> 01:29:37.736
approve this. Had you been able to, had

01:29:37.760 --> 01:29:39.336
it been put to you before the 1st of

01:29:39.360 --> 01:29:41.256
December, it would have been an error of

01:29:41.280 --> 01:29:43.416
law because actually that was not what

01:29:43.440 --> 01:29:45.416
was included in the document.

01:29:45.440 --> 01:29:47.816
Um, in in your legal advice, did you

01:29:47.840 --> 01:29:50.840
ever discuss that DAS never expire? DAS

01:29:51.679 --> 01:29:54.056
are attached to the land and that they

01:29:54.080 --> 01:29:55.736
never expire. They're a permanent

01:29:55.760 --> 01:29:56.376
approval.

01:29:56.400 --> 01:29:57.896
That is not what the legislation says.

01:29:57.920 --> 01:30:00.376
Councelor Baylor, legislation provides

01:30:00.400 --> 01:30:03.096
that a DA has a limited time frame. I'll

01:30:03.120 --> 01:30:05.816
tell you what does attach the land. the

01:30:05.840 --> 01:30:08.776
requirement to rectify

01:30:08.800 --> 01:30:11.800
and there has been no rectification

01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:14.056
notwithstanding the requirement of the

01:30:14.080 --> 01:30:17.016
existing DA they are meant to have done

01:30:17.040 --> 01:30:19.896
rectification at every stage

01:30:19.920 --> 01:30:22.920
okay is it conceivable that there's a

01:30:23.600 --> 01:30:26.600
midpoint here Mrs. Halton that may be 10

01:30:26.719 --> 01:30:29.655
more years that the developer can finish

01:30:29.679 --> 01:30:32.679
the extraction and then complete the

01:30:33.199 --> 01:30:35.976
rehabilitation. Is that something that

01:30:36.000 --> 01:30:39.000
you could meet in the middle so to

01:30:39.120 --> 01:30:39.496
speak?

01:30:39.520 --> 01:30:42.056
And I'll tell you why. Firstly, it's not

01:30:42.080 --> 01:30:45.080
legal.  this development  approval

01:30:45.840 --> 01:30:48.840
expired at midnight on the 1st of

01:30:48.880 --> 01:30:51.096
December. There is no statutory

01:30:51.120 --> 01:30:54.120
provision that enables you to extend it.

01:30:54.480 --> 01:30:55.976
there would have to be a new

01:30:56.000 --> 01:30:59.000
application. That new application would

01:30:59.199 --> 01:31:01.416
be judged against the current planning

01:31:01.440 --> 01:31:04.440
provisions. It's now C3. C3 

01:31:05.600 --> 01:31:08.536
extractive industries are a prohibited

01:31:08.560 --> 01:31:10.056
activity.

01:31:10.080 --> 01:31:12.536
So no and let me also remind you the

01:31:12.560 --> 01:31:14.215
very good work of the staff which have

01:31:14.239 --> 01:31:17.239
done a thorough analysis shows you it is

01:31:17.440 --> 01:31:20.440
not the same development. As it is not

01:31:20.560 --> 01:31:22.776
the same development, it cannot be

01:31:22.800 --> 01:31:25.736
approved under these provisions.

01:31:25.760 --> 01:31:28.760
So, Mrs. Ms. Holton, the DA was extended

01:31:29.360 --> 01:31:32.360
in 2015 and the DCPS were changed in

01:31:32.800 --> 01:31:35.800
2013. Do you accept that the DA was

01:31:36.480 --> 01:31:39.175
previously extended and therefore can

01:31:39.199 --> 01:31:40.456
now be extended?

01:31:40.480 --> 01:31:42.615
Cannot now be extended. That is a that

01:31:42.639 --> 01:31:45.639
is a false comparison. What happened in

01:31:46.400 --> 01:31:48.215
2014

01:31:48.239 --> 01:31:50.456
when it was extended was an application

01:31:50.480 --> 01:31:53.480
was made whilst there was a live consent

01:31:53.600 --> 01:31:55.576
and it was considered while there was a

01:31:55.600 --> 01:31:58.600
live consent. It was also 

01:31:58.719 --> 01:32:00.456
acknowledged because there was an

01:32:00.480 --> 01:32:03.175
objection from the holder of the land

01:32:03.199 --> 01:32:06.199
which is where we now own property that

01:32:06.400 --> 01:32:09.400
there were potential issues.  so it

01:32:09.440 --> 01:32:11.896
was only passed by one vote at council

01:32:11.920 --> 01:32:13.816
and if you read the documents you will

01:32:13.840 --> 01:32:15.736
see it was a matter of great contention

01:32:15.760 --> 01:32:17.896
even then before there were new

01:32:17.920 --> 01:32:20.296
sensitive receivers in the area and

01:32:20.320 --> 01:32:21.896
that's the other point councelor Baylor

01:32:21.920 --> 01:32:24.920
I'll point out to you  the completely

01:32:25.120 --> 01:32:28.120
inadequate assessment of impacts of this

01:32:28.560 --> 01:32:31.256
development which do not take account of

01:32:31.280 --> 01:32:33.416
the change circumstances which are

01:32:33.440 --> 01:32:36.376
consistent with the DCP that does not

01:32:36.400 --> 01:32:38.056
enable you which is what the staff have

01:32:38.080 --> 01:32:40.296
pointed out it does not enable you to

01:32:40.320 --> 01:32:42.536
say that this does not have impact. It

01:32:42.560 --> 01:32:45.560
does. Now, it's it's immaterial because

01:32:45.760 --> 01:32:47.736
we're beyond the 1st of December, but it

01:32:47.760 --> 01:32:50.456
is important to understand that context.

01:32:50.480 --> 01:32:52.695
Last couple of questions.

01:32:52.719 --> 01:32:54.215
You're familiar with Lucas Heights in

01:32:54.239 --> 01:32:55.175
Sydney.

01:32:55.199 --> 01:32:57.096
Yes, indeed. I was the regulator of it.

01:32:57.120 --> 01:32:58.536
Have you ever wondered why it was

01:32:58.560 --> 01:33:00.776
located where it was located?

01:33:00.800 --> 01:33:03.256
I I'm very aware of it, , M council

01:33:03.280 --> 01:33:06.280
failure, because I was the regulator.

01:33:09.120 --> 01:33:10.456
All right.

01:33:10.480 --> 01:33:11.736
I'll let I'll let other questions.

01:33:11.760 --> 01:33:13.976
All right. Thank you. Council Hawkins,

01:33:14.000 --> 01:33:15.256
do you have a question?

01:33:15.280 --> 01:33:16.856
No. A question is the relevance of the

01:33:16.880 --> 01:33:17.336
question.

01:33:17.360 --> 01:33:19.576
I was I thought it was pretty funny. 

01:33:19.600 --> 01:33:20.536
council summits,

01:33:20.560 --> 01:33:23.560
a very quick given the

01:33:24.639 --> 01:33:27.576
alleged um

01:33:27.600 --> 01:33:30.056
noise pollution, dust pollution,

01:33:30.080 --> 01:33:32.536
stuff that's happened during the

01:33:32.560 --> 01:33:35.560
time.

01:33:35.679 --> 01:33:38.679
I I contend or would you agree that the

01:33:39.040 --> 01:33:40.936
social license has also been tarnish

01:33:40.960 --> 01:33:42.936
issued?

01:33:42.960 --> 01:33:45.256
I think the social license expired many

01:33:45.280 --> 01:33:46.776
years ago councelor

01:33:46.800 --> 01:33:49.496
so it has been a long-term infraction.

01:33:49.520 --> 01:33:51.816
Absolutely. This I first complained to

01:33:51.840 --> 01:33:54.840
council about this in January of 2022.

01:33:55.120 --> 01:33:56.936
if you've had a look at you any of you

01:33:56.960 --> 01:33:58.856
at the objections to this in terms of

01:33:58.880 --> 01:34:00.856
the impacts on people along the Alpine

01:34:00.880 --> 01:34:03.175
Way  complaints from visitors to the

01:34:03.199 --> 01:34:04.776
region of the behavior of the truck

01:34:04.800 --> 01:34:07.016
drivers. Um and I'd remind you that the

01:34:07.040 --> 01:34:09.016
economic impacts of that are not just

01:34:09.040 --> 01:34:11.896
felt by business owners on the Alpine

01:34:11.920 --> 01:34:14.695
way. They are felt also by shopkeepers

01:34:14.719 --> 01:34:16.695
and other people inside Ginderine. It

01:34:16.719 --> 01:34:19.655
tarnishes our region. So there is no

01:34:19.679 --> 01:34:21.336
social license here as far as I'm

01:34:21.360 --> 01:34:22.695
concerned. None.

01:34:22.719 --> 01:34:25.096
Thank you.

01:34:25.120 --> 01:34:26.135
Elliot.

01:34:26.159 --> 01:34:28.695
Um, Miss Halton made some statements.

01:34:28.719 --> 01:34:30.856
She's got a lot of qualifications, but

01:34:30.880 --> 01:34:32.776
she did make one against a man in the

01:34:32.800 --> 01:34:35.336
room here. Blasting was done without

01:34:35.360 --> 01:34:35.896
notice.

01:34:35.920 --> 01:34:36.296
Yep.

01:34:36.320 --> 01:34:38.615
We have the blaster here. I'd like to

01:34:38.639 --> 01:34:40.376
hear his comments if we could.

01:34:40.400 --> 01:34:41.336
No. No.

01:34:41.360 --> 01:34:43.976
Well, how do we establish?

01:34:44.000 --> 01:34:45.336
That's up to you can have a discussion

01:34:45.360 --> 01:34:47.576
with the blaster afterwards, but um

01:34:47.600 --> 01:34:49.256
you've heard the the statement and

01:34:49.280 --> 01:34:50.776
that's it.

01:34:50.800 --> 01:34:51.896
Yeah. And and

01:34:51.920 --> 01:34:54.536
blasting without notice. said that we

01:34:54.560 --> 01:34:55.816
can take that. That's not something

01:34:55.840 --> 01:34:57.896
Let let me be very clear what I said.

01:34:57.920 --> 01:35:00.920
There was no audible warning that we

01:35:01.199 --> 01:35:04.199
were able to hear on our property. I am

01:35:05.199 --> 01:35:06.776
not an expert in that part of the

01:35:06.800 --> 01:35:08.376
legislation and regulation and I will

01:35:08.400 --> 01:35:11.016
not purport that I am. But what I will

01:35:11.040 --> 01:35:13.576
tell you is when I am literally 300

01:35:13.600 --> 01:35:16.376
meters away from a blast site was on a

01:35:16.400 --> 01:35:18.135
date in March. I'll have it in here

01:35:18.159 --> 01:35:21.159
somewhere. when I don't hear anything.

01:35:21.840 --> 01:35:23.816
When I don't hear anything warning,

01:35:23.840 --> 01:35:25.016
there was no warning. There was no

01:35:25.040 --> 01:35:26.776
noise. And can I tell you, if you read

01:35:26.800 --> 01:35:29.016
the documents, what the documents say in

01:35:29.040 --> 01:35:32.040
that respect is that um that people on

01:35:33.760 --> 01:35:36.615
the site know it's going to happen. I

01:35:36.639 --> 01:35:38.456
read that language very carefully and I

01:35:38.480 --> 01:35:39.736
thought, gee, if I were a regulator

01:35:39.760 --> 01:35:41.175
these days, I'd be very interested in

01:35:41.199 --> 01:35:43.976
that language. Can I also make the point

01:35:44.000 --> 01:35:47.000
that someone who does a blast of 67,000

01:35:48.719 --> 01:35:51.719
  tons which is advertised publicly

01:35:53.600 --> 01:35:56.296
25,000 BCM according to what's in the

01:35:56.320 --> 01:35:58.296
internet. Now I have no way to verify

01:35:58.320 --> 01:36:01.320
that. Can I remind you, counselor, that

01:36:01.760 --> 01:36:04.760
the requirement to have an  an ECL is

01:36:06.400 --> 01:36:09.400
either 30,000 tons a year or a capacity

01:36:10.159 --> 01:36:12.215
to crush

01:36:12.239 --> 01:36:15.239
150 tons per day. Now, three weeks ago,

01:36:15.280 --> 01:36:18.135
I counted seven dogs and trucks an hour

01:36:18.159 --> 01:36:20.936
going off the site, and they each

01:36:20.960 --> 01:36:23.960
contain 30 tons. Do the math.

01:36:25.360 --> 01:36:27.816
Can I though remind Sultan that the

01:36:27.840 --> 01:36:30.695
blaster also blasts in Sydney in a

01:36:30.719 --> 01:36:31.655
crowded area?

01:36:31.679 --> 01:36:33.896
Sure.

01:36:33.920 --> 01:36:34.936
Y

01:36:34.960 --> 01:36:35.496
thank you.

01:36:35.520 --> 01:36:36.615
This is my experience.

01:36:36.639 --> 01:36:38.456
I've got some more questions at the end

01:36:38.480 --> 01:36:40.776
but council council

01:36:40.800 --> 01:36:42.536
just can I get some clarification

01:36:42.560 --> 01:36:45.560
because I don't know

01:36:45.920 --> 01:36:48.920
Solomon down in area the the full

01:36:50.000 --> 01:36:53.000
details on but who owns the quarry up

01:36:53.920 --> 01:36:55.336
there? How did it all?

01:36:55.360 --> 01:36:56.856
It's privately owned.

01:36:56.880 --> 01:36:57.896
It's privately owned.

01:36:57.920 --> 01:36:59.496
It's privately owned and so the

01:36:59.520 --> 01:37:01.175
royalties go to the private person.

01:37:01.199 --> 01:37:02.695
Correct. Yeah. Okay. It's privately

01:37:02.719 --> 01:37:03.655
owned. Correct. Yeah.

01:37:03.679 --> 01:37:05.576
Yeah.

01:37:05.600 --> 01:37:07.896
Councelor Renie.

01:37:07.920 --> 01:37:10.920
Professor, could I ask you to elaborate

01:37:11.119 --> 01:37:14.119
on on your argument that um it would

01:37:14.400 --> 01:37:17.400
have been illegal to extend the  the

01:37:18.639 --> 01:37:21.639
DA prior to December the 1st this year

01:37:22.960 --> 01:37:25.960
and that we in law we can't it  make

01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:29.016
it legal now by improving it now. So you

01:37:29.040 --> 01:37:31.896
your your fundamental argument is the DA

01:37:31.920 --> 01:37:33.655
is illegal. Can you please elaborate

01:37:33.679 --> 01:37:34.456
explain why?

01:37:34.480 --> 01:37:36.856
No, let let's be clear. Um the

01:37:36.880 --> 01:37:39.880
legislation provides that a DA has a

01:37:40.159 --> 01:37:41.576
temporal component. In other words, it

01:37:41.600 --> 01:37:43.576
lasts for a nominated time. So when you

01:37:43.600 --> 01:37:45.736
approve things here, what do you do? You

01:37:45.760 --> 01:37:47.416
say, "I'm approving whatever it is." And

01:37:47.440 --> 01:37:48.776
I know there's other contentious issues

01:37:48.800 --> 01:37:50.856
on the agenda today. I approve it on

01:37:50.880 --> 01:37:53.175
this date and I will have it expire on

01:37:53.199 --> 01:37:56.199
this date. So essentially there is a

01:37:56.239 --> 01:37:57.896
document which provides conditions they

01:37:57.920 --> 01:38:00.456
attach to the land and basically it says

01:38:00.480 --> 01:38:02.376
you may operate under these conditions

01:38:02.400 --> 01:38:04.936
for this period. Now on the date it

01:38:04.960 --> 01:38:07.960
expires this is a matter of statute. On

01:38:08.400 --> 01:38:10.615
the date it expires it does not exist

01:38:10.639 --> 01:38:13.496
anymore. And that's my my legal advice

01:38:13.520 --> 01:38:15.896
and given my experience I I have no

01:38:15.920 --> 01:38:18.536
reason to doubt that legal advice. And

01:38:18.560 --> 01:38:20.936
indeed  the legal advice you got on

01:38:20.960 --> 01:38:23.416
the 8th of October actually went through

01:38:23.440 --> 01:38:26.440
the merits of the proposal as it was

01:38:26.639 --> 01:38:29.639
there. Now it doesn't go that advice

01:38:29.679 --> 01:38:32.296
does not go into this issue about

01:38:32.320 --> 01:38:34.215
expiry. But all the advice I've taken

01:38:34.239 --> 01:38:37.239
since is very very clear about this. At

01:38:37.280 --> 01:38:39.576
midnight on the 1st of December it

01:38:39.600 --> 01:38:42.536
expired. Now you could take a new

01:38:42.560 --> 01:38:44.296
development application. it would have

01:38:44.320 --> 01:38:47.095
to include a proper EIS with a proper

01:38:47.119 --> 01:38:49.416
noise assessment which was not done as

01:38:49.440 --> 01:38:52.440
part of this.  but it is contrary to

01:38:52.719 --> 01:38:55.719
the land use of the area

01:38:55.840 --> 01:38:57.976
and the reason I say if you had

01:38:58.000 --> 01:39:00.695
considered it before the 1st of December

01:39:00.719 --> 01:39:02.776
the council staff this is consistent

01:39:02.800 --> 01:39:05.256
with my advice my advice agrees with the

01:39:05.280 --> 01:39:08.135
council staff's assessment that it is

01:39:08.159 --> 01:39:10.456
not substantially the same. The

01:39:10.480 --> 01:39:12.695
legislation provides very narrow

01:39:12.719 --> 01:39:15.719
capacities for you to take a a a

01:39:16.639 --> 01:39:18.776
proposal of this kind and consider it

01:39:18.800 --> 01:39:20.376
has no either has to have no

01:39:20.400 --> 01:39:22.615
environmental impact and or it has to be

01:39:22.639 --> 01:39:25.336
substantially the same. The document

01:39:25.360 --> 01:39:27.095
asserts that it's substantially the

01:39:27.119 --> 01:39:30.119
same. Essentially, my reading  I may

01:39:30.320 --> 01:39:32.936
be not giving this its proper 

01:39:32.960 --> 01:39:35.016
context, so I apologize if I'm not doing

01:39:35.040 --> 01:39:37.016
this entirely correctly. Essentially, I

01:39:37.040 --> 01:39:38.856
draw this map. It's got this circle.

01:39:38.880 --> 01:39:41.496
It's kind of the same. Whereas if you

01:39:41.520 --> 01:39:43.976
look at the approved land form, it's

01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:47.000
contained in the EIS 1999.

01:39:48.400 --> 01:39:51.400
That EIS contains surveyed plans. Those

01:39:52.159 --> 01:39:55.016
surveys plans act and the stages of

01:39:55.040 --> 01:39:58.040
development have very very clear 

01:40:00.719 --> 01:40:03.416
precedents because that is the basis on

01:40:03.440 --> 01:40:05.416
which you assess whether the development

01:40:05.440 --> 01:40:07.416
is the same. Then there's the volume

01:40:07.440 --> 01:40:10.440
question. , can I make the point that

01:40:10.800 --> 01:40:13.016
the original assessment said, "Oh, it'll

01:40:13.040 --> 01:40:15.496
be kind of maximum 40,000 tons a year."

01:40:15.520 --> 01:40:18.296
The application said maximum 80,000 tons

01:40:18.320 --> 01:40:20.536
a year. That's not substantially the

01:40:20.560 --> 01:40:23.175
same. , if you look at the land form,

01:40:23.199 --> 01:40:26.199
I have watched the  the barrier in

01:40:26.560 --> 01:40:29.560
between the quarry and the alpine way be

01:40:31.440 --> 01:40:34.215
completely stripped, meters and meters

01:40:34.239 --> 01:40:36.695
and meters removed. And if you go and

01:40:36.719 --> 01:40:39.496
look at those survey plans, survey plan

01:40:39.520 --> 01:40:41.896
existing, stage one, two, three, and

01:40:41.920 --> 01:40:44.920
four, final form, the hill that was

01:40:45.199 --> 01:40:48.199
there gone. Now that is not

01:40:48.320 --> 01:40:50.536
substantially the same. So this is the

01:40:50.560 --> 01:40:50.936
question.

01:40:50.960 --> 01:40:52.615
Can I bring back to the question?

01:40:52.639 --> 01:40:54.776
Well, I was answering the questions as I

01:40:54.800 --> 01:40:56.296
hoped.

01:40:56.320 --> 01:40:59.320
So, is the DA is the DA before us today

01:41:00.639 --> 01:41:03.416
a renewal of the old DA that expired on

01:41:03.440 --> 01:41:06.440
the 1 of December or is it a new DA? It

01:41:06.560 --> 01:41:07.496
is not a new DA.

01:41:07.520 --> 01:41:09.256
Not a new DA.

01:41:09.280 --> 01:41:12.280
It is an extension. So, it the document

01:41:13.119 --> 01:41:14.695
you've got in front of you says for you

01:41:14.719 --> 01:41:17.655
to refuse it.  the existing the

01:41:17.679 --> 01:41:20.679
previous DA actually has expired

01:41:20.960 --> 01:41:23.175
and there are reasons which I

01:41:23.199 --> 01:41:24.776
understand. It's not for me to advise

01:41:24.800 --> 01:41:27.800
you on this. Not my role.  but that

01:41:29.040 --> 01:41:32.040
existing that previous DA is no longer

01:41:32.400 --> 01:41:35.400
in existence is my advice.

01:41:35.679 --> 01:41:38.679
And so this is the point.  it can't be

01:41:39.119 --> 01:41:41.016
extended now.

01:41:41.040 --> 01:41:44.040
So your argument is there is no DA for

01:41:44.560 --> 01:41:46.296
us to extend 65.

01:41:46.320 --> 01:41:48.215
Yes, that is it has to be new DA.

01:41:48.239 --> 01:41:49.175
That is my advice.

01:41:49.199 --> 01:41:51.896
But why is this not a new DA? Not

01:41:51.920 --> 01:41:54.695
sorry. That's sorry it's sorry it's not

01:41:54.719 --> 01:41:56.135
yeah it's not up to her to answer that

01:41:56.159 --> 01:41:57.736
question. We want to understand

01:41:57.760 --> 01:41:59.576
yeah you can ask the staff that question

01:41:59.600 --> 01:42:00.615
differs from

01:42:00.639 --> 01:42:02.695
understand that you can ask the question

01:42:02.719 --> 01:42:05.256
in the council meeting to the staff but

01:42:05.280 --> 01:42:07.576
it's definitely not 

01:42:07.600 --> 01:42:10.296
your  you know yes so ask the question

01:42:10.320 --> 01:42:11.976
to the staff when it comes to this DA

01:42:12.000 --> 01:42:14.056
why it was done the way it was done I

01:42:14.080 --> 01:42:16.056
guess or you can ask the applicant who's

01:42:16.080 --> 01:42:18.135
about to speak soon.

01:42:18.159 --> 01:42:21.095
Council

01:42:21.119 --> 01:42:24.119
Ms. Alton, did you build a glass house

01:42:24.320 --> 01:42:26.695
with glass on the boundary of world

01:42:26.719 --> 01:42:28.296
propertying the quarry?

01:42:28.320 --> 01:42:29.655
Excuse me.

01:42:29.679 --> 01:42:31.576
I'm sorry. I'll make the relevance.

01:42:31.600 --> 01:42:34.215
Sorry,

01:42:34.239 --> 01:42:36.056
that seems a fair question.

01:42:36.080 --> 01:42:37.336
No,

01:42:37.360 --> 01:42:39.416
actually not.

01:42:39.440 --> 01:42:41.016
Holton, did you build a glass house on

01:42:41.040 --> 01:42:42.695
the boundary of your property adjoining

01:42:42.719 --> 01:42:43.576
the quarry?

01:42:43.600 --> 01:42:44.615
You don't have to answer that if you

01:42:44.639 --> 01:42:45.336
don't want to.

01:42:45.360 --> 01:42:46.936
, I have a greenhouse if that's the

01:42:46.960 --> 01:42:47.256
question.

01:42:47.280 --> 01:42:49.496
Is it made of glass or or

01:42:49.520 --> 01:42:51.896
Right. And has there ever been a rock go

01:42:51.920 --> 01:42:53.175
through any of the glass in the

01:42:53.199 --> 01:42:53.655
greenhouse?

01:42:53.679 --> 01:42:55.016
I think that's an irrelevancy if you

01:42:55.040 --> 01:42:57.576
don't mind me saying. So the issue of

01:42:57.600 --> 01:42:59.416
 which is what you're going to. So

01:42:59.440 --> 01:43:01.095
you're asking me have I ever had any

01:43:01.119 --> 01:43:03.016
evidence of fly rock which I am asking

01:43:03.040 --> 01:43:03.256
you.

01:43:03.280 --> 01:43:04.296
That is what you're asking me correct

01:43:04.320 --> 01:43:05.736
and you've just told me no

01:43:05.760 --> 01:43:07.655
that I am aware of. It doesn't mean

01:43:07.679 --> 01:43:09.416
there isn't a prospect.

01:43:09.440 --> 01:43:10.536
But there's a difference between

01:43:10.560 --> 01:43:13.560
prospect questions. She's answered the

01:43:13.679 --> 01:43:14.456
question.

01:43:14.480 --> 01:43:16.056
I think we're done with questions.

01:43:16.080 --> 01:43:17.175
You don't have to answer anymore. One

01:43:17.199 --> 01:43:18.695
last you don't have to answer any more

01:43:18.719 --> 01:43:20.215
questions if you don't want. Oh, I'm

01:43:20.239 --> 01:43:21.736
happy to hear it. Keep consider.

01:43:21.760 --> 01:43:23.095
Okay, sure.

01:43:23.119 --> 01:43:26.119
Have you ever been wrong?

01:43:29.040 --> 01:43:32.040
I I counselor am frequently wrong. I

01:43:32.719 --> 01:43:34.856
like to tell my children that we have to

01:43:34.880 --> 01:43:37.655
confess when we are wrong. I am

01:43:37.679 --> 01:43:40.679
providing you with the best information

01:43:40.719 --> 01:43:43.719
based on my experience, the advice that

01:43:43.840 --> 01:43:46.840
I have received and  a very good

01:43:46.960 --> 01:43:49.736
understanding of administrative law. I

01:43:49.760 --> 01:43:51.896
have couched what I have said to you

01:43:51.920 --> 01:43:54.920
very carefully in that way. So  I seek

01:43:56.480 --> 01:43:59.480
not to misrepresent. I can never say

01:43:59.520 --> 01:44:01.896
that I am not wrong. But what I can tell

01:44:01.920 --> 01:44:04.615
you is that my advice in this area is

01:44:04.639 --> 01:44:07.256
extremely clear and that is advice from

01:44:07.280 --> 01:44:08.056
lawyers.

01:44:08.080 --> 01:44:09.496
Thank you. Thank you.

01:44:09.520 --> 01:44:10.376
Thank you.

01:44:10.400 --> 01:44:11.576
Thank you so much for your time. Sorry

01:44:11.600 --> 01:44:12.376
it took a while.

01:44:12.400 --> 01:44:13.816
Thank you.

01:44:13.840 --> 01:44:16.840
Our seventh speaker today. Yeah. Seven

01:44:17.440 --> 01:44:19.416
is Matthew Goodwin.

01:44:19.440 --> 01:44:22.215
Matthew, you have five minutes.

01:44:22.239 --> 01:44:23.496
Just have to log back on. Sorry, it's

01:44:23.520 --> 01:44:25.896
been a while.

01:44:25.920 --> 01:44:27.976
 if you can let us know topic talking

01:44:28.000 --> 01:44:29.496
on for or against. I'll ring the bell at

01:44:29.520 --> 01:44:30.695
4 minutes 30. if you could just finish

01:44:30.719 --> 01:44:32.695
off after that. Thank you so much.

01:44:32.719 --> 01:44:34.776
So, my name is Matthew Goodwin. I'm

01:44:34.800 --> 01:44:36.296
speaking against the council report

01:44:36.320 --> 01:44:37.896
recommending refusal of the application

01:44:37.920 --> 01:44:39.256
to extend the operating life of the

01:44:39.280 --> 01:44:42.280
Alpine Quarry. I'm a consultant town

01:44:42.639 --> 01:44:44.296
planner engaged by the McMahon's Earth

01:44:44.320 --> 01:44:45.576
Moving to provide supporting

01:44:45.600 --> 01:44:47.896
documentation for the application. Over

01:44:47.920 --> 01:44:49.175
the last 10 years, I've dealt with

01:44:49.199 --> 01:44:50.936
development content consent related

01:44:50.960 --> 01:44:52.936
matters for more than 25 quarry sites

01:44:52.960 --> 01:44:55.175
throughout New South Wales.

01:44:55.199 --> 01:44:56.615
During the application process,

01:44:56.639 --> 01:44:58.456
McMahon's Earth Moving has always been

01:44:58.480 --> 01:45:00.456
ready to engage with council staff and

01:45:00.480 --> 01:45:02.296
address any requests for information

01:45:02.320 --> 01:45:05.320
which arose.

01:45:05.360 --> 01:45:07.416
We got brief council emails dated the

01:45:07.440 --> 01:45:09.976
27th of June and also the 30th of June

01:45:10.000 --> 01:45:11.896
which requested some information and an

01:45:11.920 --> 01:45:14.776
additional plan. Responses were provided

01:45:14.800 --> 01:45:16.856
via email on the 27th of June and the

01:45:16.880 --> 01:45:19.880
16th of July. Council's processing the

01:45:20.080 --> 01:45:21.655
application has been unusual in my

01:45:21.679 --> 01:45:24.376
experience because one, there was no

01:45:24.400 --> 01:45:25.896
formal letter from council making a

01:45:25.920 --> 01:45:27.336
clear request for additional information

01:45:27.360 --> 01:45:29.016
regarding any issues identified by

01:45:29.040 --> 01:45:30.856
council staff or New South Wales

01:45:30.880 --> 01:45:32.615
government agencies such as traffic to

01:45:32.639 --> 01:45:34.456
New South Wales

01:45:34.480 --> 01:45:37.256
was also unusual because being lodged

01:45:37.280 --> 01:45:39.336
for 8 months in advance, the application

01:45:39.360 --> 01:45:41.016
has still not been determined prior to

01:45:41.040 --> 01:45:44.040
the expiry date. 8 months.

01:45:44.800 --> 01:45:46.456
I have formed the view that council's

01:45:46.480 --> 01:45:48.135
application assessment report should be

01:45:48.159 --> 01:45:49.496
of significant concern for any

01:45:49.520 --> 01:45:51.256
reasonable person given various factors.

01:45:51.280 --> 01:45:53.416
So I'll list some of these factors. So

01:45:53.440 --> 01:45:55.256
it makes repeated statements that the

01:45:55.280 --> 01:45:56.856
applicant has requested increased

01:45:56.880 --> 01:45:58.456
extraction.

01:45:58.480 --> 01:46:00.695
This is misleading in the usage context.

01:46:00.719 --> 01:46:02.456
Application documents note that there is

01:46:02.480 --> 01:46:05.095
a significant remaining remor resource

01:46:05.119 --> 01:46:07.095
but we did not propose any increase in

01:46:07.119 --> 01:46:09.896
the rate of extraction.

01:46:09.920 --> 01:46:11.256
The report also states that the

01:46:11.280 --> 01:46:12.615
application proposed extending the

01:46:12.639 --> 01:46:14.936
quarry's operational time frame roughly

01:46:14.960 --> 01:46:17.960
15 years to about 65 years, extending

01:46:18.080 --> 01:46:20.456
activities across multiple decades.

01:46:20.480 --> 01:46:21.576
Well, this statement is clearly

01:46:21.600 --> 01:46:22.615
misleading because the quarry has

01:46:22.639 --> 01:46:25.639
already been there for 50 years, not 15.

01:46:26.800 --> 01:46:28.856
The report also states that there's no

01:46:28.880 --> 01:46:30.296
that there there is a history of

01:46:30.320 --> 01:46:31.655
complaints in relation to the quarry

01:46:31.679 --> 01:46:34.679
operations. We were given no information

01:46:34.960 --> 01:46:37.496
counselors on how many complaints and

01:46:37.520 --> 01:46:39.816
whom and when. And as noted in the

01:46:39.840 --> 01:46:41.576
application documentation, McMahon's

01:46:41.600 --> 01:46:43.256
Earth Moving has not received any direct

01:46:43.280 --> 01:46:45.095
complaints from any community member

01:46:45.119 --> 01:46:46.695
about quarry operations during its

01:46:46.719 --> 01:46:49.719
ownership of the quarry.

01:46:51.520 --> 01:46:53.095
Also within the report, there's negl

01:46:53.119 --> 01:46:55.016
negligible analysis or consideration of

01:46:55.040 --> 01:46:56.695
the impacts of the quarry closure on

01:46:56.719 --> 01:46:58.776
employees, the applicant or end users of

01:46:58.800 --> 01:47:01.416
the quarry products, eg council, traffic

01:47:01.440 --> 01:47:03.655
for New South Wales, the National Parks

01:47:03.679 --> 01:47:06.679
and Wildlife Service or the public.

01:47:06.800 --> 01:47:08.376
Also in the report, there's no apparent

01:47:08.400 --> 01:47:09.896
evaluation of the public benefits

01:47:09.920 --> 01:47:11.576
arising from the quarry continuing to

01:47:11.600 --> 01:47:12.776
supply materials for the construction

01:47:12.800 --> 01:47:14.135
and maintenance of public and private

01:47:14.159 --> 01:47:17.159
infrastructure.

01:47:17.199 --> 01:47:18.695
Overall, the report effectively

01:47:18.719 --> 01:47:20.615
recommends cessation of a lawful and

01:47:20.639 --> 01:47:22.456
longestablished business, seemingly on

01:47:22.480 --> 01:47:24.135
the basis of the objections of people

01:47:24.159 --> 01:47:25.816
who have bought land and constructed

01:47:25.840 --> 01:47:28.135
dwellings within 600 meters of the site

01:47:28.159 --> 01:47:31.095
since 2015.

01:47:31.119 --> 01:47:32.776
There is no apparent consideration

01:47:32.800 --> 01:47:34.695
within the report of the reasonleness or

01:47:34.719 --> 01:47:37.719
the veracity of these objections.

01:47:39.600 --> 01:47:41.576
We've also got no responsible author or

01:47:41.600 --> 01:47:43.816
positions for the for the report. So

01:47:43.840 --> 01:47:45.655
there's no public transparency regarding

01:47:45.679 --> 01:47:47.655
council's decision-making processes. Who

01:47:47.679 --> 01:47:50.679
wrote the report? We have no idea.

01:47:52.159 --> 01:47:54.056
McMahon's Earth Moving remains committed

01:47:54.080 --> 01:47:55.976
to conducting operations in a manner

01:47:56.000 --> 01:47:57.175
consistent with conditions of

01:47:57.199 --> 01:47:58.376
development consent and standard

01:47:58.400 --> 01:48:00.776
practice as well as reasonable community

01:48:00.800 --> 01:48:03.175
expectations. So in that regard, it's

01:48:03.199 --> 01:48:04.856
recently upgraded the safety fencing

01:48:04.880 --> 01:48:06.695
between Black Sally Lane and the quarry

01:48:06.719 --> 01:48:08.936
site. It's also lodged an application

01:48:08.960 --> 01:48:10.456
for an updated environment protection

01:48:10.480 --> 01:48:11.576
license with the New South Wales

01:48:11.600 --> 01:48:13.896
Environment Protection Authority. It's

01:48:13.920 --> 01:48:15.655
submitted revised erosion and sediment

01:48:15.679 --> 01:48:17.416
control plans to council. It's also

01:48:17.440 --> 01:48:18.936
submitted a revised environmental

01:48:18.960 --> 01:48:20.536
management plan to council to reflect

01:48:20.560 --> 01:48:22.056
recent changes in ownership and

01:48:22.080 --> 01:48:24.536
configuration of the site.

01:48:24.560 --> 01:48:26.376
I encourage the council to consider all

01:48:26.400 --> 01:48:28.215
the information provided and approve the

01:48:28.239 --> 01:48:30.135
application to modify the development.

01:48:30.159 --> 01:48:31.416
Approval will provide business

01:48:31.440 --> 01:48:33.655
continuity for employees, customers and

01:48:33.679 --> 01:48:35.816
the applicant as well as improve

01:48:35.840 --> 01:48:37.896
financial security would also

01:48:37.920 --> 01:48:39.655
demonstrate that the council considers

01:48:39.679 --> 01:48:42.135
and supports the community business and

01:48:42.159 --> 01:48:45.016
local employment. All

01:48:45.040 --> 01:48:46.376
right, that's

01:48:46.400 --> 01:48:48.056
excellent. Thank you. Have to ring my

01:48:48.080 --> 01:48:51.080
bell questions. Councelor Oaks. Um, Mr.

01:48:52.719 --> 01:48:54.376
Goodman, thank you. It's good to have a

01:48:54.400 --> 01:48:57.400
an expert on quaries. I think you said

01:48:58.320 --> 01:49:01.320
you've been involved in 25 quarry sites.

01:49:01.760 --> 01:49:03.576
At least that's a conserved investment,

01:49:03.600 --> 01:49:06.296
right? I think the key point that I

01:49:06.320 --> 01:49:09.320
wanted to get to from the previous

01:49:11.600 --> 01:49:13.976
um submission I suppose is the previous

01:49:14.000 --> 01:49:16.456
presentation and what you've just said I

01:49:16.480 --> 01:49:19.480
think is this 1st of December date 

01:49:20.239 --> 01:49:22.615
which is seems to be quite an important

01:49:22.639 --> 01:49:25.576
one. Can I just understand

01:49:25.600 --> 01:49:27.336
the two dates I noted down that you'd

01:49:27.360 --> 01:49:29.496
had a brief

01:49:29.520 --> 01:49:32.520
information from council on the 27th

01:49:32.560 --> 01:49:35.095
and the 30th of June.

01:49:35.119 --> 01:49:35.736
Yes.

01:49:35.760 --> 01:49:38.456
And you've provided a response

01:49:38.480 --> 01:49:41.480
on the 16th of of July. Now there's a

01:49:41.600 --> 01:49:44.536
very long time period then between then

01:49:44.560 --> 01:49:47.560
and the 1st of December. So, what's

01:49:48.239 --> 01:49:49.896
happened in that particular period of

01:49:49.920 --> 01:49:52.695
time because that's the crucial story to

01:49:52.719 --> 01:49:53.175
me.

01:49:53.199 --> 01:49:54.776
There's basically been minimal

01:49:54.800 --> 01:49:57.416
communication, no formal requests for

01:49:57.440 --> 01:49:59.095
any information during that period. You

01:49:59.119 --> 01:50:00.695
know, the little bit of ad hoc emails,

01:50:00.719 --> 01:50:02.376
but nothing like normally when a

01:50:02.400 --> 01:50:03.576
council's dealing with a development

01:50:03.600 --> 01:50:05.416
application, if they don't understand a

01:50:05.440 --> 01:50:07.095
query or any of the issues around it,

01:50:07.119 --> 01:50:08.536
usually they'll send you a detailed

01:50:08.560 --> 01:50:11.560
email or a letter with 1 2 3 5 10 20

01:50:13.119 --> 01:50:15.896
issues that it wants you to address.

01:50:15.920 --> 01:50:17.976
that never came from this council which

01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:19.896
was unusual in itself for me. Anyway,

01:50:19.920 --> 01:50:21.016
that's my experience.

01:50:21.040 --> 01:50:22.536
Yes.

01:50:22.560 --> 01:50:25.336
Now, that that's quite concerning to me.

01:50:25.360 --> 01:50:27.576
So, just wanted to to be clear about

01:50:27.600 --> 01:50:30.135
that. So, there's some emails, some

01:50:30.159 --> 01:50:31.816
significant emails around the 27th, the

01:50:31.840 --> 01:50:33.496
6th, and the 30th. You responded by the

01:50:33.520 --> 01:50:35.655
16th, the 7th. Then there was something

01:50:35.679 --> 01:50:38.135
backwards and forwards. But then I think

01:50:38.159 --> 01:50:39.816
you said there's no formal request for

01:50:39.840 --> 01:50:42.840
information up until this time when then

01:50:43.440 --> 01:50:45.016
suddenly

01:50:45.040 --> 01:50:47.655
the approval expired on the 1st of

01:50:47.679 --> 01:50:50.679
December. We we were emailing um the

01:50:50.800 --> 01:50:52.615
council staff to determine what was

01:50:52.639 --> 01:50:53.896
going on with the application being

01:50:53.920 --> 01:50:55.896
aware that the expiry date was coming

01:50:55.920 --> 01:50:57.655
and obviously the demands were really

01:50:57.679 --> 01:50:59.016
worried about the expiry date and having

01:50:59.040 --> 01:51:01.816
to cease operations at a fairly prompt

01:51:01.840 --> 01:51:03.736
period and the lack of communication

01:51:03.760 --> 01:51:05.976
back from council.

01:51:06.000 --> 01:51:07.816
We we we basically didn't get anything

01:51:07.840 --> 01:51:09.175
of any consequence that would give us

01:51:09.199 --> 01:51:10.776
any shorty what the heck was going on

01:51:10.800 --> 01:51:11.655
politely.

01:51:11.679 --> 01:51:13.576
Yeah. No, that I can see that. Thanks

01:51:13.600 --> 01:51:16.600
very much for that information.

01:51:17.199 --> 01:51:20.199
Just clarification. Um one of the

01:51:21.520 --> 01:51:24.520
contentious points I believe on the the

01:51:25.280 --> 01:51:28.280
application is 40 year extension

01:51:29.679 --> 01:51:31.736
seems to be right out to the maximum

01:51:31.760 --> 01:51:34.760
which seem to have a lot of pressure on

01:51:36.800 --> 01:51:39.800
the plan to make the wouldn't it is

01:51:40.719 --> 01:51:43.256
there any way that an amendment or or

01:51:43.280 --> 01:51:45.175
provision could come in for a lesser

01:51:45.199 --> 01:51:48.199
time frame but I think if that can be

01:51:48.400 --> 01:51:51.400
addressed or why wasn't that negotiated

01:51:52.480 --> 01:51:55.480
contentious point between council and

01:51:55.679 --> 01:51:57.575
council never raised the 40-year time

01:51:57.599 --> 01:51:59.336
frame in any meaningful way with us that

01:51:59.360 --> 01:52:02.360
I'm aware of

01:52:02.880 --> 01:52:05.736
that's a couple of questions just on

01:52:05.760 --> 01:52:08.760
that theme, Mr. Goodwin.  the time the

01:52:08.960 --> 01:52:11.336
40 years is not fixed in stone, so to

01:52:11.360 --> 01:52:13.736
speak. The time limit could be changed.

01:52:13.760 --> 01:52:15.575
Um council has a prerogative to make its

01:52:15.599 --> 01:52:17.736
own decision. So I believe so. Yes.

01:52:17.760 --> 01:52:19.416
But practically assessing the quarry,

01:52:19.440 --> 01:52:21.655
would 10 years be a practical time?

01:52:21.679 --> 01:52:22.936
That's that's more a question for the

01:52:22.960 --> 01:52:25.960
quarry operators. I believe

01:52:26.159 --> 01:52:28.135
one of the conditions required in the

01:52:28.159 --> 01:52:31.159
earlier DA was the u storage of stop of

01:52:33.199 --> 01:52:35.256
a top soil to be put back over the

01:52:35.280 --> 01:52:35.896
quarry.

01:52:35.920 --> 01:52:36.215
Yes.

01:52:36.239 --> 01:52:38.615
Is is this a site that has much top soil

01:52:38.639 --> 01:52:40.296
or had much top soil?

01:52:40.320 --> 01:52:43.256
Um I've done calculations based on what

01:52:43.280 --> 01:52:45.496
I can see on the site from drone um

01:52:45.520 --> 01:52:48.520
aerial drone mapping and I believe and

01:52:48.719 --> 01:52:49.976
I'm operating from memory here. There's

01:52:50.000 --> 01:52:52.456
at least 30,000 cubic m of material

01:52:52.480 --> 01:52:54.056
that's basically weathered up in soil

01:52:54.080 --> 01:52:55.175
that's potentially usable for

01:52:55.199 --> 01:52:56.856
rehabilitation. There is also

01:52:56.880 --> 01:52:59.175
substantial regrowth on the site. Um

01:52:59.199 --> 01:53:01.016
natural regrowth I believe or some of

01:53:01.040 --> 01:53:03.575
it's planned as well but that's yeah

01:53:03.599 --> 01:53:04.936
it's not necessarily in accordance with

01:53:04.960 --> 01:53:06.376
the original rehabilitation plan but

01:53:06.400 --> 01:53:07.736
there is significant regrowth already on

01:53:07.760 --> 01:53:09.575
the site you know up to 17 m high I

01:53:09.599 --> 01:53:10.135
think

01:53:10.159 --> 01:53:12.056
right and to actually do the

01:53:12.080 --> 01:53:15.080
rehabilitation would  really require

01:53:15.920 --> 01:53:18.456
the extraction to be completed to then

01:53:18.480 --> 01:53:20.615
comply with the proposed rehabilitation

01:53:20.639 --> 01:53:23.575
plan. 

01:53:23.599 --> 01:53:25.336
you can argue that either way I guess

01:53:25.360 --> 01:53:27.336
it's yeah you could in theory

01:53:27.360 --> 01:53:29.416
rehabilitate now but why leave a

01:53:29.440 --> 01:53:31.416
resource there that's been lawfully used

01:53:31.440 --> 01:53:34.440
for 50 years would be my comment.

01:53:34.560 --> 01:53:35.496
Yeah. Thank you Mr.

01:53:35.520 --> 01:53:38.520
Good. Council Ready.

01:53:39.440 --> 01:53:42.440
Mr. Goodwood. So, , when you had your

01:53:43.280 --> 01:53:45.736
last communication with council staff in

01:53:45.760 --> 01:53:48.760
July this year, you were applying for a

01:53:49.920 --> 01:53:52.920
renewal of your license, right? The DA

01:53:53.520 --> 01:53:55.575
just to change condition too, which

01:53:55.599 --> 01:53:57.336
except the expiry date is the 1st of

01:53:57.360 --> 01:53:59.016
December. We wanted that expiry date

01:53:59.040 --> 01:54:01.175
change to 40 years into the future

01:54:01.199 --> 01:54:02.695
to allow plenty of time for business

01:54:02.719 --> 01:54:04.536
planning, operational planning and get

01:54:04.560 --> 01:54:06.456
the job done. Good years, bad years.

01:54:06.480 --> 01:54:08.776
Like some quaries always have this issue

01:54:08.800 --> 01:54:11.800
about councils want to know the maximum

01:54:11.840 --> 01:54:13.416
production figure but if you work out

01:54:13.440 --> 01:54:14.936
the maximum production figure say it's

01:54:14.960 --> 01:54:17.960
10,000 tons per year

01:54:18.000 --> 01:54:19.496
quaries don't operate like that they

01:54:19.520 --> 01:54:21.416
have high periods of high demand periods

01:54:21.440 --> 01:54:24.440
of low demand. So um we picked 40-year

01:54:25.280 --> 01:54:27.256
figure based on reasonable figure to get

01:54:27.280 --> 01:54:30.280
the job finished based on the production

01:54:30.320 --> 01:54:32.615
 history of the site if you like and

01:54:32.639 --> 01:54:35.256
the indicative production history. But

01:54:35.280 --> 01:54:38.280
now um five months later this  request

01:54:40.400 --> 01:54:43.400
has come to council and your DA has

01:54:44.000 --> 01:54:47.000
expired. You need to do a new DA not a

01:54:47.360 --> 01:54:49.095
renewal. So what more do you need to

01:54:49.119 --> 01:54:51.655
submit to council or other authorities?

01:54:51.679 --> 01:54:54.456
No. This this is the previous speaker

01:54:54.480 --> 01:54:57.095
had um

01:54:57.119 --> 01:54:59.575
some interesting

01:54:59.599 --> 01:55:01.496
legal interpretations of the situation

01:55:01.520 --> 01:55:04.215
that seem to differ from our legal

01:55:04.239 --> 01:55:05.976
interpretation of the situations on

01:55:06.000 --> 01:55:09.000
major level. Um our understanding is

01:55:09.199 --> 01:55:12.199
that council has the right to

01:55:12.400 --> 01:55:15.016
approve it. Um, and if you read the

01:55:15.040 --> 01:55:16.695
condition, I think that condition two

01:55:16.719 --> 01:55:17.816
says something to the effect I was

01:55:17.840 --> 01:55:20.776
exposed on the 1st of December. Um, if

01:55:20.800 --> 01:55:23.655
no further council approval is issued.

01:55:23.679 --> 01:55:26.215
So the question is at the moment is

01:55:26.239 --> 01:55:27.896
whether further council approval is

01:55:27.920 --> 01:55:29.095
going to be issued. If it is, well,

01:55:29.119 --> 01:55:30.215
presumably it's got the right to keep

01:55:30.239 --> 01:55:31.496
going because that that was the original

01:55:31.520 --> 01:55:32.936
condition of consent. Wasn't a black and

01:55:32.960 --> 01:55:34.856
white expiry date as suggested

01:55:34.880 --> 01:55:37.095
elsewhere.

01:55:37.119 --> 01:55:39.336
How many people do you employ at that

01:55:39.360 --> 01:55:40.615
mine?

01:55:40.639 --> 01:55:42.536
I'm not the employer.

01:55:42.560 --> 01:55:45.416
McMahon the MA um RA McMahon will talk

01:55:45.440 --> 01:55:46.695
on some of those issues in a minute. I'm

01:55:46.719 --> 01:55:48.296
sure

01:55:48.320 --> 01:55:50.536
thank you. Thank you so much for your

01:55:50.560 --> 01:55:53.016
time. Really appreciate it.

01:55:53.040 --> 01:55:55.175
Our eighth speaker today is Rachel

01:55:55.199 --> 01:55:57.816
McMahon.

01:55:57.840 --> 01:56:00.840
Rachel, you have five minutes. I'll ring

01:56:00.880 --> 01:56:02.215
the bell at 4 minutes 30. If you just

01:56:02.239 --> 01:56:03.976
let us know the topic you're talking on,

01:56:04.000 --> 01:56:06.536
for or against

01:56:06.560 --> 01:56:08.296
and

01:56:08.320 --> 01:56:09.655
I'll ring it four and a half minutes and

01:56:09.679 --> 01:56:11.896
you can just finish up. Thank you.

01:56:11.920 --> 01:56:13.816
 the DA modification to the Alpine

01:56:13.840 --> 01:56:16.840
Quarry in support of um okay I'm Rachel

01:56:18.560 --> 01:56:20.296
McMahon I'm the director of McMman's

01:56:20.320 --> 01:56:22.856
Earth Moving um the applicant for the

01:56:22.880 --> 01:56:25.880
the DA um I'm a mother to three children

01:56:28.560 --> 01:56:31.560
Mitchell 17 and Nate 14 um we have been

01:56:33.760 --> 01:56:36.215
around this area were born and bred

01:56:36.239 --> 01:56:38.296
started McMman's earth moving 19 years

01:56:38.320 --> 01:56:41.320
ago um we employ up to 70 people Now um

01:56:43.040 --> 01:56:45.336
we have

01:56:45.360 --> 01:56:48.056
oh there's about 15 to 20 jobs directly

01:56:48.080 --> 01:56:50.695
connected to the quarry um that is now

01:56:50.719 --> 01:56:52.536
nonoperational.

01:56:52.560 --> 01:56:54.615
Um we submitted our application back on

01:56:54.639 --> 01:56:57.336
the 18th of March um which gave council

01:56:57.360 --> 01:56:59.896
9 months to assess.  there was plenty

01:56:59.920 --> 01:57:01.416
of times to ask questions, seek

01:57:01.440 --> 01:57:03.175
clarification, request additional

01:57:03.199 --> 01:57:05.496
information.  we're not changing

01:57:05.520 --> 01:57:07.896
anything. The footprint's still there.

01:57:07.920 --> 01:57:09.416
Everything's exactly the same. there's

01:57:09.440 --> 01:57:11.095
only the extension, the timeline to be

01:57:11.119 --> 01:57:13.336
able to complete the process.

01:57:13.360 --> 01:57:16.296
Um, we've we've engaged professionals as

01:57:16.320 --> 01:57:17.816
you've just heard from Matt Goodwin from

01:57:17.840 --> 01:57:20.376
Quarry Plan New South Wales. Um, he

01:57:20.400 --> 01:57:22.135
knows the quaries inside and out. He

01:57:22.159 --> 01:57:24.135
prepared the application

01:57:24.159 --> 01:57:25.816
um so that we had everything that we

01:57:25.840 --> 01:57:27.575
needed.

01:57:27.599 --> 01:57:30.599
Um, we have the quarry was established

01:57:30.880 --> 01:57:33.816
in 1970. It's been operating for over 55

01:57:33.840 --> 01:57:36.840
years. We acquired the quarry in 2018.

01:57:38.880 --> 01:57:41.416
um which was 7 years ago. It's always

01:57:41.440 --> 01:57:43.095
been the same zoning. It's always been

01:57:43.119 --> 01:57:44.776
environmental.

01:57:44.800 --> 01:57:46.695
Um we've operated without incident and

01:57:46.719 --> 01:57:48.536
without complaint.

01:57:48.560 --> 01:57:50.776
Um other than a single letter from the

01:57:50.800 --> 01:57:53.736
council about operating hours back in 

01:57:53.760 --> 01:57:55.896
I'm not sure of the date, sorry. Um with

01:57:55.920 --> 01:57:57.655
zero complaints from neighbors and zero

01:57:57.679 --> 01:58:00.536
complaints from the public.  the

01:58:00.560 --> 01:58:02.456
history of complaints in the assessment

01:58:02.480 --> 01:58:03.976
report

01:58:04.000 --> 01:58:06.856
 shocks me because where's the history

01:58:06.880 --> 01:58:08.536
of complaints? We haven't had any

01:58:08.560 --> 01:58:11.560
complaints. Um there's no record of it.

01:58:11.599 --> 01:58:13.976
Council hasn't provided any evidence. Um

01:58:14.000 --> 01:58:15.575
the claim appears to be completely

01:58:15.599 --> 01:58:18.135
unfounded.

01:58:18.159 --> 01:58:20.215
Um I'm deeply disappointed with the

01:58:20.239 --> 01:58:22.215
impact assessment um from council

01:58:22.239 --> 01:58:24.376
focusing only on the negatives. It's a

01:58:24.400 --> 01:58:26.856
one-sided assessment with um that I

01:58:26.880 --> 01:58:29.880
believe is not a proper assessment.

01:58:31.360 --> 01:58:34.360
We  we do many major projects in this

01:58:34.480 --> 01:58:35.896
area and the Alpine is the main

01:58:35.920 --> 01:58:38.920
contributor to products for them. 

01:58:38.960 --> 01:58:41.256
this week alone I've turned away two of

01:58:41.280 --> 01:58:43.256
my customers. They're trailbuilders.

01:58:43.280 --> 01:58:45.256
They do the national parks. They they

01:58:45.280 --> 01:58:47.016
you know they don't buy a lot of product

01:58:47.040 --> 01:58:48.695
but they buy enough. It's a stepping

01:58:48.719 --> 01:58:51.719
stones. I do believe the um snowy alpine

01:58:51.840 --> 01:58:53.976
walk I think it's called the 56 km

01:58:54.000 --> 01:58:55.976
that's just gone in. If you look at most

01:58:56.000 --> 01:58:58.056
of the photos on the park's website, um

01:58:58.080 --> 01:58:59.655
they're our stepping stones. They come

01:58:59.679 --> 01:59:01.976
from the Alpine. It might be buyers, but

01:59:02.000 --> 01:59:03.976
I think it's pretty good rock.

01:59:04.000 --> 01:59:07.000
Um we can't supply them. I've had to um

01:59:07.199 --> 01:59:09.575
I've had to tell one fell that um I'm

01:59:09.599 --> 01:59:11.416
sorry, but your staff can't work. They

01:59:11.440 --> 01:59:13.496
have to find product from elsewhere. Um

01:59:13.520 --> 01:59:14.936
but there's nothing that matches it in

01:59:14.960 --> 01:59:17.960
this area. Um it is like we we supplied

01:59:19.920 --> 01:59:22.615
rock to ski tube. Um the alpine way

01:59:22.639 --> 01:59:23.896
maintenance with the landside they've

01:59:23.920 --> 01:59:25.736
had above thread. There's many many

01:59:25.760 --> 01:59:28.760
different instances for that one. Um the

01:59:29.280 --> 01:59:31.896
local road upgrades, council's own road

01:59:31.920 --> 01:59:34.856
projects. Um

01:59:34.880 --> 01:59:37.736
we Krakenback village, it it has it as

01:59:37.760 --> 01:59:40.760
well. Um many private land holders. Um

01:59:41.119 --> 01:59:42.936
very close neighbors. They all use the

01:59:42.960 --> 01:59:45.960
Alpine Quarry for their products.

01:59:46.800 --> 01:59:49.800
Um,

01:59:50.239 --> 01:59:53.239
sorry I'm lost where I'm

01:59:57.760 --> 02:00:00.760
now the where I um

02:00:01.920 --> 02:00:03.575
our material is safe for the national

02:00:03.599 --> 02:00:05.976
parks is approved. Um it doesn't have a

02:00:06.000 --> 02:00:07.336
dieback in it which a lot of other

02:00:07.360 --> 02:00:10.360
quaries do. Um it's it's not a bulk lot

02:00:11.840 --> 02:00:13.736
of product that goes up there, but it's

02:00:13.760 --> 02:00:15.496
enough to be significant for the you

02:00:15.520 --> 02:00:18.520
know tourism around the area.

02:00:18.639 --> 02:00:21.416
There's um there's not many quaries

02:00:21.440 --> 02:00:24.215
nearby. I think you know 80 to 100k

02:00:24.239 --> 02:00:25.976
caves is your next one and I do believe

02:00:26.000 --> 02:00:27.336
some of those quaries can't have the

02:00:27.360 --> 02:00:29.256
product in the national park. It also

02:00:29.280 --> 02:00:31.736
doesn't have the same spec um for road

02:00:31.760 --> 02:00:33.175
infrastructure and that they're only

02:00:33.199 --> 02:00:35.575
smaller operations. So it doubles the

02:00:35.599 --> 02:00:37.655
cost, it doubles the emissions. you

02:00:37.679 --> 02:00:38.936
know, there's more trucks on the road

02:00:38.960 --> 02:00:40.615
and it has a negative impact on the

02:00:40.639 --> 02:00:43.639
environment. Um, we're

02:00:44.239 --> 02:00:47.239
we're asking that um it's look, we're

02:00:48.000 --> 02:00:50.615
our employees are affected um with work

02:00:50.639 --> 02:00:53.095
and everything like that. We're asking

02:00:53.119 --> 02:00:55.655
that um we're not changing anything. We

02:00:55.679 --> 02:00:56.936
just want to use the resource in the

02:00:56.960 --> 02:00:58.536
ground. We don't want to go and start

02:00:58.560 --> 02:01:00.376
another quarry and you know put another

02:01:00.400 --> 02:01:03.400
scar on the earth. Um in summary, we

02:01:03.599 --> 02:01:06.536
have 55 years of operation. um always in

02:01:06.560 --> 02:01:08.695
an environmental zone without incident

02:01:08.719 --> 02:01:11.175
without complaint, local jobs, local

02:01:11.199 --> 02:01:13.816
supply of material, supporting the local

02:01:13.840 --> 02:01:15.416
infrastructure, supporting the national

02:01:15.440 --> 02:01:16.936
park. We just want to finish what was

02:01:16.960 --> 02:01:19.655
approved.

02:01:19.679 --> 02:01:22.135
Thank you so much, Rachel. Any

02:01:22.159 --> 02:01:24.056
questions? Council Hopkins, then

02:01:24.080 --> 02:01:27.080
councelor Rooney.

02:01:27.599 --> 02:01:29.496
You say the quarry's been operating for

02:01:29.520 --> 02:01:31.416
about 50 years. Yeah.

02:01:31.440 --> 02:01:34.376
Does does a quarry have a finite amount

02:01:34.400 --> 02:01:36.456
of resource? You know, does will it get

02:01:36.480 --> 02:01:37.736
to a point where you think, right, we've

02:01:37.760 --> 02:01:39.655
had all we can from this quarry? Have

02:01:39.679 --> 02:01:41.336
you calculated sort of when the end of

02:01:41.360 --> 02:01:42.856
life might be

02:01:42.880 --> 02:01:45.016
where the end of life for this quarry

02:01:45.040 --> 02:01:46.936
where we're we're assuming? So, it's

02:01:46.960 --> 02:01:48.456
yeah, it's a calculation there depending

02:01:48.480 --> 02:01:51.480
on demand over the years. Um, could be

02:01:51.760 --> 02:01:54.760
10 years. Um, but we've asked for 40 and

02:01:56.080 --> 02:01:58.695
we asked for 40 in case the the demand's

02:01:58.719 --> 02:02:00.056
not there. So, it's got a longer

02:02:00.080 --> 02:02:02.456
lifetime. It gives the re edge as well.

02:02:02.480 --> 02:02:04.856
Um so yeah there is calculations in

02:02:04.880 --> 02:02:07.880
place but you can't always guarantee it.

02:02:09.119 --> 02:02:12.119
Council reading sorry next

02:02:13.360 --> 02:02:16.360
you have um I think two or so three

02:02:17.520 --> 02:02:20.520
houses within a 600 meter

02:02:21.920 --> 02:02:24.920
radius of of the quarry.  why can't

02:02:26.480 --> 02:02:29.256
you contact each one individually to

02:02:29.280 --> 02:02:31.336
give the bonus of blasting by text or

02:02:31.360 --> 02:02:33.175
email or whatever.

02:02:33.199 --> 02:02:35.896
Um we have a blast protocol. So we use a

02:02:35.920 --> 02:02:37.896
qualified company. We have a local

02:02:37.920 --> 02:02:39.896
there's no work at the moment. We have a

02:02:39.920 --> 02:02:42.536
local um blast operator that does it. He

02:02:42.560 --> 02:02:44.856
calls in um another blast company that

02:02:44.880 --> 02:02:47.016
supplies the product. Um they have a

02:02:47.040 --> 02:02:48.615
protocol which we follow.

02:02:48.639 --> 02:02:50.456
It's clearly not sufficient because

02:02:50.480 --> 02:02:52.615
you're hearing from a neighbor that she

02:02:52.639 --> 02:02:55.639
had no no warning. Um that's

02:02:56.560 --> 02:02:58.376
that's what she that's that's her

02:02:58.400 --> 02:02:59.095
comment

02:02:59.119 --> 02:03:01.256
directly personally say hey there's a

02:03:01.280 --> 02:03:03.496
bus on tomorrow and you know

02:03:03.520 --> 02:03:05.256
we could yeah we we can make that as

02:03:05.280 --> 02:03:06.856
condition of consent. Yeah no worries at

02:03:06.880 --> 02:03:09.496
all but um yeah that's but there is

02:03:09.520 --> 02:03:11.095
definitely warning sirens there is

02:03:11.119 --> 02:03:13.575
definitely um centuries there is double

02:03:13.599 --> 02:03:15.736
checks I'm not part of the blasting but

02:03:15.760 --> 02:03:17.175
there is definitely double checks in

02:03:17.199 --> 02:03:19.816
place before we blast. Would it be

02:03:19.840 --> 02:03:22.840
possible for you to do a series of minor

02:03:24.320 --> 02:03:27.320
blasts which presumably have less impact

02:03:27.520 --> 02:03:29.816
on neighbors than one major blast?

02:03:29.840 --> 02:03:32.056
The only problem with again I don't do

02:03:32.080 --> 02:03:34.376
the blast plans. Um I've seen the blast

02:03:34.400 --> 02:03:36.215
plans but I don't do them. There's a

02:03:36.239 --> 02:03:38.456
sequence to the plant. So there's a

02:03:38.480 --> 02:03:40.536
reason why they blast a section or the

02:03:40.560 --> 02:03:43.560
amount. Um and it's to do with it's to

02:03:43.760 --> 02:03:45.416
do with how what section they need to

02:03:45.440 --> 02:03:47.095
come out for the future blasting and the

02:03:47.119 --> 02:03:49.016
quarry benching.

02:03:49.040 --> 02:03:51.016
How many people do you employ?

02:03:51.040 --> 02:03:52.215
Up to 70.

02:03:52.239 --> 02:03:52.776
How many?

02:03:52.800 --> 02:03:53.655
70.

02:03:53.679 --> 02:03:55.256
70. Yeah. At that mine.

02:03:55.280 --> 02:03:56.296
No, no, not at that one.

02:03:56.320 --> 02:03:57.816
How many do you employ?

02:03:57.840 --> 02:04:00.776
Um, there's up to about 10 staff there,

02:04:00.800 --> 02:04:02.856
plus the truckies and the contractors,

02:04:02.880 --> 02:04:05.496
the subcontractors as well.

02:04:05.520 --> 02:04:07.976
What will happen to the 10 staff point

02:04:08.000 --> 02:04:10.615
at the moment if this request is not

02:04:10.639 --> 02:04:12.296
granted? Um, at the moment I'm job

02:04:12.320 --> 02:04:14.615
stacking, so I'm paying wages so they

02:04:14.639 --> 02:04:17.575
have their Christmas. Um, and then they

02:04:17.599 --> 02:04:20.599
won't have a job.

02:04:21.119 --> 02:04:23.095
Any council?

02:04:23.119 --> 02:04:26.119
Um, thanks. That it's very helpful to

02:04:26.880 --> 02:04:29.655
get a big picture context. Just in terms

02:04:29.679 --> 02:04:32.615
of the number of glass, I suppose no

02:04:32.639 --> 02:04:35.336
average, but would there be one a week,

02:04:35.360 --> 02:04:36.215
one a month?

02:04:36.239 --> 02:04:39.239
Oh, no, no, no. One um, one to two a

02:04:39.520 --> 02:04:41.496
year if that. Okay. So, we're not

02:04:41.520 --> 02:04:42.615
talking about a lot of glass.

02:04:42.639 --> 02:04:43.416
Hi.

02:04:43.440 --> 02:04:46.440
Um, and in terms of the I'm just trying

02:04:47.040 --> 02:04:48.695
to find this timeline which I find a bit

02:04:48.719 --> 02:04:50.856
intriguing that that I think the first

02:04:50.880 --> 02:04:53.256
of the 18th of March was the submission

02:04:53.280 --> 02:04:54.215
made.

02:04:54.239 --> 02:04:56.536
Um, and then Mr.

02:04:56.560 --> 02:04:59.560
Goodwin said that he had

02:04:59.599 --> 02:05:02.599
basically communication in late June and

02:05:03.199 --> 02:05:06.199
then and the third year and so there

02:05:06.480 --> 02:05:08.776
this there's a there's a puzzle here I

02:05:08.800 --> 02:05:10.695
think that we need to talk about

02:05:10.719 --> 02:05:13.496
separately as a council. I I think

02:05:13.520 --> 02:05:15.496
probably the most significant thing and

02:05:15.520 --> 02:05:17.655
I just wanted to just check with you.

02:05:17.679 --> 02:05:19.336
you said you've operated with zero

02:05:19.360 --> 02:05:22.360
complaint up until the stage of this

02:05:22.480 --> 02:05:25.336
this issue being brought up. And so

02:05:25.360 --> 02:05:27.256
there's been obviously it's obviously

02:05:27.280 --> 02:05:30.280
the the relication or the the

02:05:30.400 --> 02:05:32.215
confirmation of the extension of the of

02:05:32.239 --> 02:05:34.376
the quarry that's that's induced the

02:05:34.400 --> 02:05:35.416
complaints because there haven't been

02:05:35.440 --> 02:05:37.016
any as far as you know

02:05:37.040 --> 02:05:39.416
there was sorry to interrupt there there

02:05:39.440 --> 02:05:40.936
was one a little bit earlier on that I

02:05:40.960 --> 02:05:43.336
mentioned there um that came about

02:05:43.360 --> 02:05:46.360
within the month of me we're open and

02:05:46.560 --> 02:05:48.695
honest was it oh sorry um saying that we

02:05:48.719 --> 02:05:51.575
were going to um extend the quarry da

02:05:51.599 --> 02:05:53.496
there two years ago or something like

02:05:53.520 --> 02:05:56.520
that um to um a couple of local people

02:05:58.080 --> 02:05:59.575
and there was a complaint that came in

02:05:59.599 --> 02:06:01.256
within a month of that and that's the

02:06:01.280 --> 02:06:03.016
only complaint that we've had.

02:06:03.040 --> 02:06:05.095
That's helpful and I think the other

02:06:05.119 --> 02:06:08.119
point you made just just to clarify so

02:06:08.320 --> 02:06:09.736
there's been an assessment made in the

02:06:09.760 --> 02:06:11.655
report but you believe that the impact

02:06:11.679 --> 02:06:13.976
assessment you was disappointing because

02:06:14.000 --> 02:06:16.456
the impact that it has locally in

02:06:16.480 --> 02:06:18.615
supplying material in employment in a

02:06:18.639 --> 02:06:20.456
whole range of ways you think hasn't

02:06:20.480 --> 02:06:22.296
been adequately addressed in the report.

02:06:22.320 --> 02:06:24.135
There's no positives. It only says the

02:06:24.159 --> 02:06:24.695
negatives.

02:06:24.719 --> 02:06:25.095
Yes.

02:06:25.119 --> 02:06:26.056
Yeah.

02:06:26.080 --> 02:06:26.856
Yeah.

02:06:26.880 --> 02:06:28.056
Thank Thank you. I think that that

02:06:28.080 --> 02:06:31.080
that's just helpful to get that view.

02:06:32.159 --> 02:06:33.655
Thank you so much for your time. Oh,

02:06:33.679 --> 02:06:36.615
sorry, Council. Sorry. Thanks, Counc.

02:06:36.639 --> 02:06:39.639
Thank you, Mrs. McMahon.

02:06:41.440 --> 02:06:43.416
I'll accept that. Yes, pretty proud of

02:06:43.440 --> 02:06:45.095
that one.

02:06:45.119 --> 02:06:48.119
, do your trucks accessing

02:06:48.960 --> 02:06:50.615
going in coming out of the quarry, do

02:06:50.639 --> 02:06:52.615
they usually use Black Sally Lane or

02:06:52.639 --> 02:06:53.575
your own driveway?

02:06:53.599 --> 02:06:55.016
No, our own driveway.

02:06:55.040 --> 02:06:57.416
Right. So, there's very very little

02:06:57.440 --> 02:06:59.816
truck movement of your trucks on Black

02:06:59.840 --> 02:07:00.695
Sally Lane.

02:07:00.719 --> 02:07:03.095
Yeah, we we don't use Black Sally Lane

02:07:03.119 --> 02:07:04.376
at all unless we're delivering to a

02:07:04.400 --> 02:07:05.736
customer down there.

02:07:05.760 --> 02:07:07.575
Right.

02:07:07.599 --> 02:07:10.599
And um if I'm saying I haven't quite

02:07:11.119 --> 02:07:13.976
worked out how to say is it phytothora

02:07:14.000 --> 02:07:14.456
the bug

02:07:14.480 --> 02:07:17.336
phytothora that's a dieback I because I

02:07:17.360 --> 02:07:19.575
wasn't going to say the word I dieback

02:07:19.599 --> 02:07:21.816
is pretty much what it is that um we're

02:07:21.840 --> 02:07:23.095
free of in that quarry.

02:07:23.119 --> 02:07:24.695
So you've got a certification that your

02:07:24.719 --> 02:07:27.175
quarry is free of that and you are able

02:07:27.199 --> 02:07:29.095
to supply national parks.

02:07:29.119 --> 02:07:31.655
We are. Yep. Yep. So it's it's the same

02:07:31.679 --> 02:07:33.256
product as what's in the attit which is

02:07:33.280 --> 02:07:35.016
in the national park there except the

02:07:35.040 --> 02:07:37.095
addit spent like and parks aren't meant

02:07:37.119 --> 02:07:39.496
to be quaries. Um but they they've used

02:07:39.520 --> 02:07:41.256
a fair bit of rock out that now quaries

02:07:41.280 --> 02:07:42.936
the same rock.

02:07:42.960 --> 02:07:45.960
And  was your quarry product used in

02:07:46.560 --> 02:07:49.256
for example I think the

02:07:49.280 --> 02:07:51.095
is it the what's the private high school

02:07:51.119 --> 02:07:53.575
on the edge of Gabbine with the grain

02:07:53.599 --> 02:07:56.599
high public ground with the big

02:07:56.719 --> 02:07:57.976
the rock walls.

02:07:58.000 --> 02:07:59.976
Yes. So that that had to match in. So,

02:08:00.000 --> 02:08:01.976
the original rock walls on that one had

02:08:02.000 --> 02:08:04.296
to match in. Um, even the rock work had

02:08:04.320 --> 02:08:06.055
to be built the same to look like that.

02:08:06.079 --> 02:08:07.336
And that all came out of the Alpine

02:08:07.360 --> 02:08:08.215
Quarry.

02:08:08.239 --> 02:08:11.175
Right. Have you thought about making a a

02:08:11.199 --> 02:08:13.016
veneer tile that we might have been able

02:08:13.040 --> 02:08:14.456
to use on our library? Because we

02:08:14.480 --> 02:08:16.296
actually imported the library tiles from

02:08:16.320 --> 02:08:18.055
China.

02:08:18.079 --> 02:08:21.079
Really like that to change to our rock.

02:08:21.119 --> 02:08:23.976
We might get into that debate. Um, yeah.

02:08:24.000 --> 02:08:25.896
No, we we have we have thought about

02:08:25.920 --> 02:08:27.416
that, but it's not quite the right rock

02:08:27.440 --> 02:08:30.215
for veneers. So yeah,

02:08:30.239 --> 02:08:32.456
thank you so much for your time. Really

02:08:32.480 --> 02:08:33.496
appreciate

02:08:33.520 --> 02:08:36.520
our ninth speaker today is Kai to Kai,

02:08:37.199 --> 02:08:40.199
where are you?

02:08:40.719 --> 02:08:42.695
Oh, you have five minutes.

02:08:42.719 --> 02:08:44.615
I'll ring the bell at 4 minutes 30. If

02:08:44.639 --> 02:08:45.655
you just let us know the topic you're

02:08:45.679 --> 02:08:48.679
talking on or against.  and  if you

02:08:49.599 --> 02:08:51.256
get just finish off your statement after

02:08:51.280 --> 02:08:53.095
4 minutes 30, please.

02:08:53.119 --> 02:08:56.055
Good day, councilors. Kai just work 

02:08:56.079 --> 02:08:59.079
talking against the proposed transport

02:09:00.320 --> 02:09:03.320
depot on Kinder Road. Um Tom and Baron

02:09:05.599 --> 02:09:07.336
mentioned including their neighbors will

02:09:07.360 --> 02:09:10.360
be directly affected by this due to

02:09:11.440 --> 02:09:13.496
firstly eval devaluation of their

02:09:13.520 --> 02:09:16.520
properties. Noise is a big concern. I

02:09:17.360 --> 02:09:19.896
believe the proposed buffer would be a

02:09:19.920 --> 02:09:21.655
mound they want to put in place but I

02:09:21.679 --> 02:09:24.135
reckon that would be insufficient.

02:09:24.159 --> 02:09:26.456
and destroy the natural look and lay of

02:09:26.480 --> 02:09:28.776
the rural landscape.

02:09:28.800 --> 02:09:31.496
If you look up New South Wales safe

02:09:31.520 --> 02:09:33.736
work, and that's the same for every

02:09:33.760 --> 02:09:36.615
state, what incurable diseases

02:09:36.639 --> 02:09:39.416
reciprocal crystalline silica dust can

02:09:39.440 --> 02:09:41.416
cause.

02:09:41.440 --> 02:09:44.376
Most types of soils around Calaminda

02:09:44.400 --> 02:09:46.695
are containing quartz and granite and

02:09:46.719 --> 02:09:49.496
they're high in silica.

02:09:49.520 --> 02:09:52.296
Um any dirt brought in to build these

02:09:52.320 --> 02:09:53.816
mounds would have to be checked for

02:09:53.840 --> 02:09:56.135
silica content

02:09:56.159 --> 02:09:58.376
also placed as not to affect the natural

02:09:58.400 --> 02:10:01.400
flow of water when we do get rain and

02:10:02.159 --> 02:10:05.159
who's going to police it.

02:10:06.239 --> 02:10:09.239
also creating a potential for generating

02:10:09.440 --> 02:10:12.440
or super crystalline silica RCS control

02:10:12.560 --> 02:10:15.496
measure to keep the mounds of dirt

02:10:15.520 --> 02:10:18.055
constantly wet due to the eastly and

02:10:18.079 --> 02:10:21.016
westly prevailing winds. Where is this

02:10:21.040 --> 02:10:23.736
water going to come from? As we know

02:10:23.760 --> 02:10:25.416
there's no water on that section of

02:10:25.440 --> 02:10:28.376
land. Also the type of water has not to

02:10:28.400 --> 02:10:31.400
infect nearby natural springs.

02:10:31.520 --> 02:10:34.055
We also need to evaluate the effect on

02:10:34.079 --> 02:10:37.079
the buried gas pipeline.

02:10:37.679 --> 02:10:40.679
Moisture content will rise

02:10:40.800 --> 02:10:43.416
and is there enough cathodic protection

02:10:43.440 --> 02:10:46.135
on the critical parts of this line?

02:10:46.159 --> 02:10:49.159
We'll discuss this in more detail later.

02:10:50.159 --> 02:10:52.376
The proposed hard stand ground would be

02:10:52.400 --> 02:10:54.695
natural aggregate. This is also a

02:10:54.719 --> 02:10:57.719
crystalline quartz 52 to 95% silica

02:10:58.079 --> 02:10:59.896
content.

02:10:59.920 --> 02:11:02.856
um heavy transporting trucks turning and

02:11:02.880 --> 02:11:05.016
grinding on the aggregate will generate

02:11:05.040 --> 02:11:07.095
silica.

02:11:07.119 --> 02:11:09.256
This level of exposure will have to be

02:11:09.280 --> 02:11:11.896
evaluated

02:11:11.920 --> 02:11:13.976
again water to mitigate the dust

02:11:14.000 --> 02:11:16.296
generation if the even after truck

02:11:16.320 --> 02:11:18.296
movements when at night when the winds

02:11:18.320 --> 02:11:21.256
pick up and the dries up the surface

02:11:21.280 --> 02:11:24.215
making the silica airborne again. a

02:11:24.239 --> 02:11:26.215
control measure of constant wetting of

02:11:26.239 --> 02:11:29.239
the ground water supply. There is none.

02:11:29.520 --> 02:11:31.175
As you can now understand, if a large

02:11:31.199 --> 02:11:32.695
amount of water is to be used to

02:11:32.719 --> 02:11:35.336
mitigate the airborne silica, the

02:11:35.360 --> 02:11:37.256
saturation point of the ground will be

02:11:37.280 --> 02:11:39.256
much higher than it naturally is. Hence

02:11:39.280 --> 02:11:41.016
the potential effects of the gas

02:11:41.040 --> 02:11:42.776
pipeline.

02:11:42.800 --> 02:11:44.376
Soil moisture content drastically

02:11:44.400 --> 02:11:46.296
changes how natural gas moves from a

02:11:46.320 --> 02:11:49.320
berry pipeline leak because they do leak

02:11:50.400 --> 02:11:52.135
with wet soils trapping gas and

02:11:52.159 --> 02:11:54.135
increasing local concentrations creating

02:11:54.159 --> 02:11:57.159
a higher immediate hazards while dry

02:11:57.360 --> 02:11:59.575
soils will allow gas to diffuse to the

02:11:59.599 --> 02:12:01.256
atmosphere.

02:12:01.280 --> 02:12:03.655
Wet soils will require higher safety

02:12:03.679 --> 02:12:05.575
protocols.

02:12:05.599 --> 02:12:07.976
Um the gas company will have to review

02:12:08.000 --> 02:12:10.536
the report on this new finding as this

02:12:10.560 --> 02:12:11.896
was obviously not mentioned about the

02:12:11.920 --> 02:12:13.736
silica which will also have to be

02:12:13.760 --> 02:12:16.760
re-evaluated.

02:12:16.880 --> 02:12:19.496
Um constant vibration from diesel

02:12:19.520 --> 02:12:21.496
powered trucks could have an adverse

02:12:21.520 --> 02:12:23.496
reaction to bury gas lines. Look up

02:12:23.520 --> 02:12:26.215
stress on pipelines from vibration and

02:12:26.239 --> 02:12:27.976
saturation.

02:12:28.000 --> 02:12:29.655
Um

02:12:29.679 --> 02:12:31.416
there is no cure once your lungs are

02:12:31.440 --> 02:12:32.936
contaminated with the microscopic

02:12:32.960 --> 02:12:35.016
particles. Every load onto the property

02:12:35.040 --> 02:12:37.095
will have to be saturated as no dust is

02:12:37.119 --> 02:12:40.119
given off. Who is going to police this?

02:12:40.639 --> 02:12:43.639
Where is this water going to come from?

02:12:44.560 --> 02:12:46.135


02:12:46.159 --> 02:12:49.159
and currently I use the road Charlinda

02:12:49.679 --> 02:12:51.816
every day

02:12:51.840 --> 02:12:54.296
for the last 15 years. The current

02:12:54.320 --> 02:12:57.256
condition of the road demands extreme

02:12:57.280 --> 02:13:00.280
diligence at all times. not wide enough

02:13:01.360 --> 02:13:04.360
even with two cars are passing.

02:13:04.719 --> 02:13:06.376
It's

02:13:06.400 --> 02:13:08.135
um

02:13:08.159 --> 02:13:09.896
it has happened before that I've had to

02:13:09.920 --> 02:13:11.496
actually leave the road to give way to

02:13:11.520 --> 02:13:14.135
cars or trucks that don't usually use

02:13:14.159 --> 02:13:16.135
column in the road out of time out of

02:13:16.159 --> 02:13:18.695
town.

02:13:18.719 --> 02:13:20.456
Um,

02:13:20.480 --> 02:13:21.976
if there's ever going to be a fatality

02:13:22.000 --> 02:13:23.256
on the section of the road, if nothing

02:13:23.280 --> 02:13:24.776
is done about it, who's going to be

02:13:24.800 --> 02:13:26.376
responsible?

02:13:26.400 --> 02:13:29.095
At a close, , please keep rural rural

02:13:29.119 --> 02:13:31.896
and segregate indust industry to where

02:13:31.920 --> 02:13:34.920
industry is and should remain.

02:13:35.760 --> 02:13:37.816
I hope I've spoken well and everyone

02:13:37.840 --> 02:13:39.896
understands me.

02:13:39.920 --> 02:13:41.575
Thank you.

02:13:41.599 --> 02:13:43.496
Any questions, councilors? Council

02:13:43.520 --> 02:13:45.095
favor,

02:13:45.119 --> 02:13:46.856
whereabouts exactly do you live on the

02:13:46.880 --> 02:13:48.615
Carla? Are you on the bument section or

02:13:48.639 --> 02:13:49.095
you

02:13:49.119 --> 02:13:51.256
I'm on the I'm on the dirt.

02:13:51.280 --> 02:13:52.936
And there's silica in the dirt. Doesn't

02:13:52.960 --> 02:13:54.376
Oh, you reckon there would be, mate?

02:13:54.400 --> 02:13:55.736
Yep.

02:13:55.760 --> 02:13:56.856
Got it.

02:13:56.880 --> 02:13:59.416
Um, are you aware that the gas pipeline

02:13:59.440 --> 02:14:01.175
that you're talking about goes under a

02:14:01.199 --> 02:14:04.135
lot of rivers and is built into a road

02:14:04.159 --> 02:14:06.055
just outside of Naraga above the

02:14:06.079 --> 02:14:07.175
Hendrick River crossing?

02:14:07.199 --> 02:14:08.776
Did you know if it's steel or poly?

02:14:08.800 --> 02:14:10.456
It's a steel pipe. I was there when they

02:14:10.480 --> 02:14:10.856
built it.

02:14:10.880 --> 02:14:13.880
All right. Well, as I say, I'm only just

02:14:14.000 --> 02:14:15.336
looking at things that may might have

02:14:15.360 --> 02:14:18.296
been overlooked. It's steep.

02:14:18.320 --> 02:14:19.896
Yeah. Well, I want to assure you that

02:14:19.920 --> 02:14:21.976
the design protocols do encompass wet

02:14:22.000 --> 02:14:25.000
ground and um debate buried in roadways.

02:14:25.360 --> 02:14:27.416
Yeah. But now if the silica silicates

02:14:27.440 --> 02:14:28.856
taken seriously, you're going to have to

02:14:28.880 --> 02:14:31.175
saturate that ground immensely and hence

02:14:31.199 --> 02:14:33.496
you could potentially create gas pockets

02:14:33.520 --> 02:14:36.520
where gas pipes leak.

02:14:37.280 --> 02:14:37.976
We got questions

02:14:38.000 --> 02:14:39.496
on. Yeah.

02:14:39.520 --> 02:14:41.976
Any further questions, councilors?

02:14:42.000 --> 02:14:43.655
No. Thank you so much for your time.

02:14:43.679 --> 02:14:46.135
Really appreciate it. Our last speaker

02:14:46.159 --> 02:14:49.159
for today is just a sorry more fondest

02:14:49.599 --> 02:14:51.095
please Mr. I know this is as long as we

02:14:51.119 --> 02:14:54.119
have poly. It's fantastic.

02:14:57.760 --> 02:14:59.575
I'll give you five minutes if you I'll

02:14:59.599 --> 02:15:00.695
ring the bell at 4 minutes 30 if you

02:15:00.719 --> 02:15:01.655
just let us know topic you're talking

02:15:01.679 --> 02:15:03.095
honest or against. Maybe you can just

02:15:03.119 --> 02:15:04.376
finish this topic up after four and a

02:15:04.400 --> 02:15:04.856
half minutes.

02:15:04.880 --> 02:15:07.175
Um just to start with this is not my

02:15:07.199 --> 02:15:09.256
natural habitat public speaking. So

02:15:09.280 --> 02:15:11.736
excuse me if I get a bit nervous. I'm

02:15:11.760 --> 02:15:14.296
speaking in support of the council's

02:15:14.320 --> 02:15:16.776
refusal of the extension of the Alpine

02:15:16.800 --> 02:15:18.936
Lake Quarry.

02:15:18.960 --> 02:15:20.856
I know that there are legal issues here

02:15:20.880 --> 02:15:22.695
that require legal answers. I'm not a

02:15:22.719 --> 02:15:24.296
lawyer, so I'm not going to speak on

02:15:24.320 --> 02:15:26.615
those. I must first acknowledge the

02:15:26.639 --> 02:15:28.215
council's staff and the thorough job

02:15:28.239 --> 02:15:31.239
that they did in assessing the

02:15:31.920 --> 02:15:34.376
application that was put before them. I

02:15:34.400 --> 02:15:37.095
would now urge you all to recommend the

02:15:37.119 --> 02:15:39.336
refusal on the grounds the application

02:15:39.360 --> 02:15:42.360
contains unacceptable and irreversible

02:15:42.480 --> 02:15:45.095
damage to the environment.

02:15:45.119 --> 02:15:47.016
It underpins

02:15:47.040 --> 02:15:49.736
the community's values. It is against

02:15:49.760 --> 02:15:52.760
it. Please refuse this application.

02:15:52.880 --> 02:15:54.695
Approving it will have farreaching

02:15:54.719 --> 02:15:57.256
effects, threatening sensitive habitat,

02:15:57.280 --> 02:16:00.135
species, degrading landscape values,

02:16:00.159 --> 02:16:02.376
undermining environmental objectives set

02:16:02.400 --> 02:16:05.400
out in planning controls. Higher volumes

02:16:06.000 --> 02:16:09.000
of materials removed intensify erosion.

02:16:10.320 --> 02:16:12.055
They accelerate the loss of native

02:16:12.079 --> 02:16:15.079
vegetation and wildlife habitat. Instead

02:16:15.360 --> 02:16:17.336
of allowing for recovery of pro

02:16:17.360 --> 02:16:19.416
progressive rehabilitation, any

02:16:19.440 --> 02:16:22.055
extension would lock in decades of

02:16:22.079 --> 02:16:24.776
environmental harm, unimaginative

02:16:24.800 --> 02:16:26.456
effects permanently altering the

02:16:26.480 --> 02:16:29.416
landscape, diminishing the biodiversity

02:16:29.440 --> 02:16:31.655
and reducing the area's capacity to

02:16:31.679 --> 02:16:34.615
recover from such disturbance. Such an

02:16:34.639 --> 02:16:36.695
escalation cannot reasonably be

02:16:36.719 --> 02:16:39.719
described as a minimal environmental

02:16:40.160 --> 02:16:43.160
impact. This proposal is inconsistent

02:16:43.280 --> 02:16:45.256
with development controls for the Kraken

02:16:45.280 --> 02:16:47.655
area where landscape protection is a

02:16:47.679 --> 02:16:50.216
paramount objective as is tourism,

02:16:50.240 --> 02:16:52.136
ecoourism, tourist products,

02:16:52.160 --> 02:16:54.776
accommodation and the minimization of

02:16:54.800 --> 02:16:57.415
land use conflicts. Approving this

02:16:57.439 --> 02:16:59.335
modification would jeopardize these

02:16:59.359 --> 02:17:02.359
values and violate the attent the intent

02:17:02.800 --> 02:17:05.800
of our local zonings. Extending quarry

02:17:06.559 --> 02:17:08.936
activities is a direct conflict with

02:17:08.960 --> 02:17:11.495
these objectives and undermines the key

02:17:11.519 --> 02:17:14.216
political responses. I acknowledge the

02:17:14.240 --> 02:17:15.976
economic impact that this will have.

02:17:16.000 --> 02:17:18.216
There is a quarry at Mount Mary that

02:17:18.240 --> 02:17:21.096
supplies rocks. The economic impact

02:17:21.120 --> 02:17:23.655
flows from the quarry void all the way

02:17:23.679 --> 02:17:25.976
down to the town center.

02:17:26.000 --> 02:17:28.056
The modification threatens not only

02:17:28.080 --> 02:17:30.056
natural environment but the unique

02:17:30.080 --> 02:17:32.455
visitor experience that draws people to

02:17:32.479 --> 02:17:35.415
town, the gateway to the national park.

02:17:35.439 --> 02:17:37.575
The highly visible destruction of native

02:17:37.599 --> 02:17:40.535
vegetation on the scenic protected lands

02:17:40.559 --> 02:17:43.176
approaching the national park erodess

02:17:43.200 --> 02:17:45.816
the sense of arrival and wonder that was

02:17:45.840 --> 02:17:48.615
once defined in this region. When

02:17:48.639 --> 02:17:50.455
visitors are deterred by scars of

02:17:50.479 --> 02:17:52.375
quarrying activity and the loss of

02:17:52.399 --> 02:17:55.335
native habitat, the economic ripple

02:17:55.359 --> 02:17:57.896
effects extend throughout the community,

02:17:57.920 --> 02:18:00.295
jeopardizing jobs in small businesses

02:18:00.319 --> 02:18:03.096
viability. Local businesses, many of

02:18:03.120 --> 02:18:06.120
which rely on steady tourist visitation,

02:18:06.319 --> 02:18:09.096
stand to suffer significant economic

02:18:09.120 --> 02:18:11.816
losses as visitor numbers decline.

02:18:11.840 --> 02:18:14.840
Cafes, accommodation providers, outdoor

02:18:14.880 --> 02:18:17.495
equipment shops, guided tour operators

02:18:17.519 --> 02:18:20.295
all depend on thriving, attractive

02:18:20.319 --> 02:18:22.056
natural setting to sustain their

02:18:22.080 --> 02:18:23.976
livelihoods.

02:18:24.000 --> 02:18:26.375
We talk about social license. The social

02:18:26.399 --> 02:18:29.335
license here has been eroded. Another

02:18:29.359 --> 02:18:32.216
critical concern is the risk to road

02:18:32.240 --> 02:18:33.816
users.

02:18:33.840 --> 02:18:36.840
The cyclists who use the alpine way. The

02:18:36.880 --> 02:18:38.615
present of fre presence of frequent

02:18:38.639 --> 02:18:41.016
quarrying trucks introduces a hazard.

02:18:41.040 --> 02:18:43.736
It's a risk to life and there is safety

02:18:43.760 --> 02:18:46.760
to both locals and visitors and this is

02:18:46.880 --> 02:18:49.880
paramount for safety.

02:18:50.240 --> 02:18:52.375
The intensification of trucks represents

02:18:52.399 --> 02:18:55.256
an unacceptable threat. Residents,

02:18:55.280 --> 02:18:57.256
businesses and tourists have objected to

02:18:57.280 --> 02:18:59.575
the ongoing quarry activities due to

02:18:59.599 --> 02:19:02.295
truck movement, dust, noise and the

02:19:02.319 --> 02:19:04.936
destruction of vegetation. These issues

02:19:04.960 --> 02:19:07.655
degrade the visitor experience. No one

02:19:07.679 --> 02:19:09.256
comes to this part of the country to

02:19:09.280 --> 02:19:11.575
experience heavy industry, blasting

02:19:11.599 --> 02:19:14.535
noise and air pollution. If approved,

02:19:14.559 --> 02:19:16.936
the modification will deter tourists,

02:19:16.960 --> 02:19:19.655
damage the reputation of our region, and

02:19:19.679 --> 02:19:21.816
harm every business that relies on

02:19:21.840 --> 02:19:24.840
visitors who come for the clean air, the

02:19:25.200 --> 02:19:28.200
quiet and the pristine environment.

02:19:28.240 --> 02:19:30.375
The application applicant, as I

02:19:30.399 --> 02:19:32.455
mentioned, has eroded its social license

02:19:32.479 --> 02:19:34.615
by consistently breaching existing

02:19:34.639 --> 02:19:36.776
conditions of development.

02:19:36.800 --> 02:19:39.256
The operator has constructed earthn buns

02:19:39.280 --> 02:19:41.335
not in the original approval, has

02:19:41.359 --> 02:19:43.736
removed native vegetation, removed the

02:19:43.760 --> 02:19:45.896
visual and acoustic barriers, and have

02:19:45.920 --> 02:19:47.896
on multiple years extracted volumes

02:19:47.920 --> 02:19:50.920
requiring a license which was not held.

02:19:51.359 --> 02:19:53.415
Has done done nothing to mitigate dust

02:19:53.439 --> 02:19:55.656
and noise issues. They have not erected

02:19:55.680 --> 02:19:57.736
signage. They have failed to notify

02:19:57.760 --> 02:19:59.896
blasting and have only recently as late

02:19:59.920 --> 02:20:02.455
as October this year erected a safety

02:20:02.479 --> 02:20:04.455
fence. If you've been along Black Sally

02:20:04.479 --> 02:20:06.936
Lane and seen that all that was to

02:20:06.960 --> 02:20:09.960
protect us was a closed fence wire.

02:20:10.319 --> 02:20:13.319
Three pieces of wire and style pickets.

02:20:13.359 --> 02:20:16.359
Importantly, council cannot must not

02:20:16.640 --> 02:20:18.455
retrospectively approve unlawful

02:20:18.479 --> 02:20:21.335
modification already undertaken. To do

02:20:21.359 --> 02:20:23.096
so would undermine the integrity of the

02:20:23.120 --> 02:20:25.335
planning process and set a dangerous

02:20:25.359 --> 02:20:28.359
prison of future of non-compliance.

02:20:29.040 --> 02:20:31.496
The applicant's failure to obtain prior

02:20:31.520 --> 02:20:34.520
approval for works is in breach. We

02:20:35.280 --> 02:20:37.496
cannot legitimize these. It would be an

02:20:37.520 --> 02:20:40.520
error. The applicant

02:20:41.200 --> 02:20:44.200
no to rectify these breaches only after

02:20:44.240 --> 02:20:46.455
modification is approved which is simply

02:20:46.479 --> 02:20:48.936
not good enough. Current best practice

02:20:48.960 --> 02:20:51.016
suggests the original consent demanded

02:20:51.040 --> 02:20:53.176
these issues be resolved and not

02:20:53.200 --> 02:20:55.576
deferred for years into the future. I

02:20:55.600 --> 02:20:57.656
urge you as community elected

02:20:57.680 --> 02:20:59.176
representatives to reject the

02:20:59.200 --> 02:21:01.976
modification for it fails entirely to

02:21:02.000 --> 02:21:04.295
address current and long-term impact

02:21:04.319 --> 02:21:07.096
which would span four decades.

02:21:07.120 --> 02:21:09.576
The application is not by any measure

02:21:09.600 --> 02:21:11.335
substantially the same development as

02:21:11.359 --> 02:21:13.496
originally approved will not have

02:21:13.520 --> 02:21:15.816
minimal impact on the environment and if

02:21:15.840 --> 02:21:17.896
approved will transform the nature and

02:21:17.920 --> 02:21:19.976
the scale of the activity well beyond

02:21:20.000 --> 02:21:22.136
what was ever contemplated or consented

02:21:22.160 --> 02:21:25.160
to in the original consent. Thank you.

02:21:25.439 --> 02:21:28.439
Thank you so much. Any questions? C

02:21:29.359 --> 02:21:30.616
counc Elliot.

02:21:30.640 --> 02:21:32.616
Well, I just you mentioned about the

02:21:32.640 --> 02:21:35.640
tourism impact and  the safety of

02:21:36.160 --> 02:21:39.160
visitors etc. Look, I just asked you to

02:21:39.200 --> 02:21:41.976
expand on your tourism knowledge on all

02:21:42.000 --> 02:21:42.616
this.

02:21:42.640 --> 02:21:44.776
I was mainly talking about the riders

02:21:44.800 --> 02:21:47.800
who now we have a influx of riders on

02:21:48.080 --> 02:21:50.056
the Alpine Way, cyclists who use the

02:21:50.080 --> 02:21:52.536
Alpine Way. There are increasing number

02:21:52.560 --> 02:21:55.016
of summer riders rather than just the

02:21:55.040 --> 02:21:57.176
winter tourism.

02:21:57.200 --> 02:22:00.056
But what about the rest of the tourism?

02:22:00.080 --> 02:22:01.496
Yeah, the road is busy.

02:22:01.520 --> 02:22:02.536
What's your question?

02:22:02.560 --> 02:22:03.335
Busy, but there's

02:22:03.359 --> 02:22:04.375
What's your question?

02:22:04.399 --> 02:22:04.936
Yeah,

02:22:04.960 --> 02:22:07.256
I I'd like to

02:22:07.280 --> 02:22:10.280
 Miss Kino said about

02:22:10.399 --> 02:22:13.399
touris tourism and you know how they're

02:22:13.520 --> 02:22:15.096
affected. I just wanted to know her

02:22:15.120 --> 02:22:17.656
involvement within tourism to expand on

02:22:17.680 --> 02:22:17.976
that.

02:22:18.000 --> 02:22:19.656
I'm not involved in tourism at all. I'm

02:22:19.680 --> 02:22:21.576
not in the tourist industry, but

02:22:21.600 --> 02:22:23.335
businesses up and down the Alpine and

02:22:23.359 --> 02:22:26.136
Way have said that the frequency of the

02:22:26.160 --> 02:22:27.976
trucks going up and down the Alpine way

02:22:28.000 --> 02:22:30.375
that it's not a pleasant experience.

02:22:30.399 --> 02:22:32.295
There's rubble and there's dust on the

02:22:32.319 --> 02:22:33.816
roads.

02:22:33.840 --> 02:22:35.335
Two businesses,

02:22:35.359 --> 02:22:37.256
council. Hell yeah.

02:22:37.280 --> 02:22:38.216
There's only two.

02:22:38.240 --> 02:22:39.576
I understand that, but don't

02:22:39.600 --> 02:22:42.455
Oh, sorry. Apologize.

02:22:42.479 --> 02:22:44.455
Thank you, Council P.

02:22:44.479 --> 02:22:45.976
Um,

02:22:46.000 --> 02:22:49.000
Missine Justine. Okay, cool. Justine 

02:22:52.240 --> 02:22:54.295
the fence. Did you ever complain about

02:22:54.319 --> 02:22:57.319
the fence in all the years?

02:22:58.560 --> 02:23:01.415
I

02:23:01.439 --> 02:23:03.896
would not answer that question in a

02:23:03.920 --> 02:23:06.375
public forum. If someone would like to

02:23:06.399 --> 02:23:09.176
ask me that aside, then I would be very

02:23:09.200 --> 02:23:11.335
happy to speak about why complaints were

02:23:11.359 --> 02:23:12.375
made.

02:23:12.399 --> 02:23:15.335
Okay. Um, can you see the quarry from

02:23:15.359 --> 02:23:18.056
the alpine way? If you're driving up

02:23:18.080 --> 02:23:18.696
uphill,

02:23:18.720 --> 02:23:20.536
you can see quarrying activity from the

02:23:20.560 --> 02:23:23.176
alpine way driving up and driving down.

02:23:23.200 --> 02:23:24.696
What What do you mean by quarrying

02:23:24.720 --> 02:23:25.335
activity?

02:23:25.359 --> 02:23:27.096
And see the remnants of the scarred

02:23:27.120 --> 02:23:29.335
landscape. And when they're on the bench

02:23:29.359 --> 02:23:31.176
at the top with the excavator, you can

02:23:31.200 --> 02:23:33.496
certainly see the excavator. You can see

02:23:33.520 --> 02:23:35.736
that the native trees have been

02:23:35.760 --> 02:23:37.656
bulldozed. There is now a really ugly

02:23:37.680 --> 02:23:39.256
fence all around it, which it needs to

02:23:39.280 --> 02:23:41.256
have for safety reasons. But you can

02:23:41.280 --> 02:23:43.736
definitely see that there is industrial

02:23:43.760 --> 02:23:46.760
activity on that part of the alpine way.

02:23:47.680 --> 02:23:49.256
So

02:23:49.280 --> 02:23:51.335
if the fence was pretty, would that have

02:23:51.359 --> 02:23:53.096
made it better as opposed to an ugly

02:23:53.120 --> 02:23:54.375
fence?

02:23:54.399 --> 02:23:54.856
I'm not.

02:23:54.880 --> 02:23:56.216
It's a question.

02:23:56.240 --> 02:23:57.976
She said it's an ugly fence. Well, if it

02:23:58.000 --> 02:23:59.335
was a pretty fence, would that make it

02:23:59.359 --> 02:24:00.455
better?

02:24:00.479 --> 02:24:03.479
That fence was there a long time.

02:24:03.520 --> 02:24:04.616
You don't have to answer questions if

02:24:04.640 --> 02:24:05.496
you choose not to.

02:24:05.520 --> 02:24:07.496
I refuse to be attacked by councelor

02:24:07.520 --> 02:24:08.696
failure.

02:24:08.720 --> 02:24:09.736
Well, I'm not attacked. You don't have

02:24:09.760 --> 02:24:12.136
to answer anymore

02:24:12.160 --> 02:24:14.056
the way in which he is asking questions

02:24:14.080 --> 02:24:15.896
and I have seen him do it to the other

02:24:15.920 --> 02:24:18.616
people not just the other lady related

02:24:18.640 --> 02:24:20.455
to the alpine quarry but he has done it

02:24:20.479 --> 02:24:21.415
to the other

02:24:21.439 --> 02:24:23.816
well the minister has asked us to engage

02:24:23.840 --> 02:24:26.536
council last debate and we're finished

02:24:26.560 --> 02:24:28.136
thank you so much we appreciate your

02:24:28.160 --> 02:24:28.696
time

02:24:28.720 --> 02:24:30.056
are you cutting me short on asking

02:24:30.080 --> 02:24:30.696
questions again

02:24:30.720 --> 02:24:32.375
no more questions she asked and stated

02:24:32.399 --> 02:24:33.335
that we're not going to answer any more

02:24:33.359 --> 02:24:34.616
questions

02:24:34.640 --> 02:24:37.335
thank you

02:24:37.359 --> 02:24:40.216
wanted to bring this um up because we've

02:24:40.240 --> 02:24:43.240
had a  an email from Mr. Lewis who

02:24:43.840 --> 02:24:46.136
said that he was refused the ability to

02:24:46.160 --> 02:24:47.656
speak and wanted to know if there was a

02:24:47.680 --> 02:24:50.680
possibility of him doing that. Um and 

02:24:51.040 --> 02:24:52.056
I just thought I'd bring it to your

02:24:52.080 --> 02:24:52.375
attention.

02:24:52.399 --> 02:24:53.816
Yes, I've spoken to Mr. Lewis about it

02:24:53.840 --> 02:24:55.976
and so that's you're you're happy.

02:24:56.000 --> 02:24:57.496
Yes. And he has left the room too,

02:24:57.520 --> 02:24:58.696
right? Thank you.

02:24:58.720 --> 02:25:00.295
Thank you so much, Mr. Mayor. Before we

02:25:00.319 --> 02:25:03.319
resume, it's good time for a break. 

02:25:03.840 --> 02:25:04.375
change of

02:25:04.399 --> 02:25:05.736
We'll just have to reopen the meeting

02:25:05.760 --> 02:25:08.760
and then I'll

02:25:09.600 --> 02:25:12.056
two and a half hours. Does anyone need a

02:25:12.080 --> 02:25:12.696
break?

02:25:12.720 --> 02:25:13.016
Yes.

02:25:13.040 --> 02:25:16.040
Okay. What we'll do?

02:25:16.080 --> 02:25:17.896
Sorry, counselors. Before I open the

02:25:17.920 --> 02:25:20.696
meeting back up, you'll have a 10-minute

02:25:20.720 --> 02:25:23.176
break.

02:25:23.200 --> 02:25:25.576
I'm starting the meeting in 10 minutes.

02:25:25.600 --> 02:25:28.600
You're here or not?

02:25:31.280 --> 02:25:33.496
Reopen the meeting at 3:36.

02:25:33.520 --> 02:25:34.936
Yeah.

02:25:34.960 --> 02:25:37.960
 we are now on sorry check 

02:25:39.680 --> 02:25:42.680
disclosure of interest. Any disclos

02:25:50.160 --> 02:25:52.455
are you ready?

02:25:52.479 --> 02:25:54.216
Without prejudice declaration of

02:25:54.240 --> 02:25:56.056
non-significant nonunary interest

02:25:56.080 --> 02:25:59.080
council failure via cois December 2025

02:25:59.280 --> 02:26:01.576
monthly meeting agenda item 8.2 DA

02:26:01.600 --> 02:26:03.736
freight transport facility.

02:26:03.760 --> 02:26:05.496
I know the applicant casually. I drive a

02:26:05.520 --> 02:26:07.016
truck. I have a business in Polo Flat

02:26:07.040 --> 02:26:09.096
now. 8.3 up on quarry. I know the

02:26:09.120 --> 02:26:10.776
applicants. I have purchased quarry

02:26:10.800 --> 02:26:12.056
products from suitable local quarry

02:26:12.080 --> 02:26:13.415
operators and I'm likely to purchase

02:26:13.439 --> 02:26:14.776
quarry products from the applicants in

02:26:14.800 --> 02:26:16.696
the future. I have purchased scrap metal

02:26:16.720 --> 02:26:17.816
from the applicants in the past. The

02:26:17.840 --> 02:26:19.496
applicants gave me a free dingo kelpy

02:26:19.520 --> 02:26:22.520
cross puppy 15 years ago. 9.1.1

02:26:23.760 --> 02:26:25.415
Recreational fishing in Lake Wallace. I

02:26:25.439 --> 02:26:27.256
live in Neimbel and water may be

02:26:27.280 --> 02:26:28.696
supplied to my house and business from

02:26:28.720 --> 02:26:30.056
Lake Wallace which I would prefer to

02:26:30.080 --> 02:26:32.936
remain clean. 9.1.2 2 fluoride in

02:26:32.960 --> 02:26:34.696
bombala water supply. I personally

02:26:34.720 --> 02:26:37.096
reject the idea of public fluidation of

02:26:37.120 --> 02:26:38.375
water supplies and have campaigned

02:26:38.399 --> 02:26:40.295
politically in this respect over 10 plus

02:26:40.319 --> 02:26:43.319
years. 9.1.3 water supply tanks and

02:26:43.600 --> 02:26:46.136
pumps. I live in Nimbel under a large

02:26:46.160 --> 02:26:49.160
council water tank. 9.3.1 Disability

02:26:49.280 --> 02:26:50.616
Committee. I acknowledge the personal

02:26:50.640 --> 02:26:51.736
conflict with one of the committee

02:26:51.760 --> 02:26:53.335
applicants who lied to police resulting

02:26:53.359 --> 02:26:55.096
in my public arrest and charges later

02:26:55.120 --> 02:26:58.120
proven to be false and dismissed. 9.3.5

02:26:58.160 --> 02:27:01.160
PIO report. I am named in the PIO order.

02:27:01.359 --> 02:27:03.736
9.3.6 code of meeting practice. I made

02:27:03.760 --> 02:27:05.736
submission number three and I can say

02:27:05.760 --> 02:27:07.256
that the mixed code of meeting practice

02:27:07.280 --> 02:27:08.776
and code of conduct amendments have been

02:27:08.800 --> 02:27:10.455
referred to in certain political circles

02:27:10.479 --> 02:27:13.176
as the quote get failure amendments.

02:27:13.200 --> 02:27:16.200
11.2 UCC I have a UCCC and I say it is

02:27:16.399 --> 02:27:19.399
unlawful and wrong. 11.12 and 11.13 Kuma

02:27:19.520 --> 02:27:21.335
water treatment plant and water test

02:27:21.359 --> 02:27:22.936
results.

02:27:22.960 --> 02:27:25.736
I occasionally drink SMRC supplied town

02:27:25.760 --> 02:27:27.896
water. 12.1 pools. I have gone to an

02:27:27.920 --> 02:27:30.856
SMRC pool and may go again if they open.

02:27:30.880 --> 02:27:32.856
14.1 Settlement of property damage

02:27:32.880 --> 02:27:35.256
claim. I am a friend of the claimant.

02:27:35.280 --> 02:27:36.616
However, I have never met her

02:27:36.640 --> 02:27:38.696
personally. I have had I have her

02:27:38.720 --> 02:27:40.136
permission to discuss this matter

02:27:40.160 --> 02:27:41.976
publicly. I bring this matter under

02:27:42.000 --> 02:27:43.816
section 2321D

02:27:43.840 --> 02:27:46.295
local government act 14.2 payment of

02:27:46.319 --> 02:27:47.656
legal cost. I am a friend of the

02:27:47.680 --> 02:27:49.656
winners. I help the winners win in

02:27:49.680 --> 02:27:51.576
brackets. Prior to becoming a counselor,

02:27:51.600 --> 02:27:54.600
I bring this matter under section 2321D

02:27:54.960 --> 02:27:57.335
of the Local Government Act. 14.3 Legal

02:27:57.359 --> 02:28:00.295
actions against the family. I have met

02:28:00.319 --> 02:28:01.896
and know these people. I bring this

02:28:01.920 --> 02:28:04.136
matter under section 2321D of the Local

02:28:04.160 --> 02:28:06.536
Government Act. 14.4 Legal actions and

02:28:06.560 --> 02:28:09.016
potential claims against SMRC. I know

02:28:09.040 --> 02:28:10.696
some of these people mentioned I have

02:28:10.720 --> 02:28:12.856
legal actions against the SMRC. I bring

02:28:12.880 --> 02:28:15.880
this matter under section 2321D

02:28:16.319 --> 02:28:18.856
14.5. Clearance certificate for Mickerop

02:28:18.880 --> 02:28:20.455
property. I know Mr. Badrock and have

02:28:20.479 --> 02:28:23.096
become friends. I found and reported the

02:28:23.120 --> 02:28:24.776
asbestous on his paddics. I was

02:28:24.800 --> 02:28:26.616
suspended from council ostensibly for

02:28:26.640 --> 02:28:28.295
trying to clean up the asbestous on the

02:28:28.319 --> 02:28:30.455
property. I have given notice to the CEO

02:28:30.479 --> 02:28:32.056
of my intention to commence a Supreme

02:28:32.080 --> 02:28:34.295
Court action in relating relation to

02:28:34.319 --> 02:28:36.536
obtaining the facts about and with

02:28:36.560 --> 02:28:37.816
respect to this property and the

02:28:37.840 --> 02:28:39.656
landfill next door. I bring this matter

02:28:39.680 --> 02:28:42.136
under 2321D. I make these declarations

02:28:42.160 --> 02:28:44.216
to the best of my election recollection

02:28:44.240 --> 02:28:47.240
genuinely and openly and I did write a

02:28:47.439 --> 02:28:50.295
digital version which I will email to

02:28:50.319 --> 02:28:52.536
secretary and that's the other bit any

02:28:52.560 --> 02:28:54.616
further

02:28:54.640 --> 02:28:56.455
disclosure of interest

02:28:56.479 --> 02:28:57.816
no thank you 

02:28:57.840 --> 02:29:00.840
is anyone disclosing any friendships

02:29:01.760 --> 02:29:03.415
no

02:29:03.439 --> 02:29:03.896
okay

02:29:03.920 --> 02:29:06.920
thank you  moving on to matters by

02:29:07.760 --> 02:29:10.295
exception there is there any matters by

02:29:10.319 --> 02:29:11.896
exception Can I start reading?

02:29:11.920 --> 02:29:14.776
I am going to speak to everything.

02:29:14.800 --> 02:29:17.335
Thank you. I'm moving on. Thank you.

02:29:17.359 --> 02:29:20.216
When can I bring an order of business?

02:29:20.240 --> 02:29:21.976
 you can bring an order of business

02:29:22.000 --> 02:29:23.496
now if you like.

02:29:23.520 --> 02:29:26.520
Just at  9.1.3

02:29:27.280 --> 02:29:29.896
 regarding the water supply reserves

02:29:29.920 --> 02:29:30.856
and that

02:29:30.880 --> 02:29:33.880
I I might be wrong but reading that one

02:29:33.920 --> 02:29:35.256
of the most

02:29:35.280 --> 02:29:38.280
9.1 9.1.3

02:29:38.319 --> 02:29:40.375
renewal and refurbishment of water. Yep.

02:29:40.399 --> 02:29:40.776
Yep.

02:29:40.800 --> 02:29:42.536
I'd just like to bring that to the top.

02:29:42.560 --> 02:29:45.560
And when I sort of read through here,

02:29:46.240 --> 02:29:47.976
supplying water to our residents, I

02:29:48.000 --> 02:29:49.576
would have thought is one of the most

02:29:49.600 --> 02:29:51.256
important things and we've got a long

02:29:51.280 --> 02:29:53.016
agenda. I'm not sure how much we get

02:29:53.040 --> 02:29:54.216
through.

02:29:54.240 --> 02:29:56.136
Yeah. My only Yeah. I I'm happy to put

02:29:56.160 --> 02:29:57.896
that up. My only concern is we've heard

02:29:57.920 --> 02:29:59.335
from a lot of people in this room about

02:29:59.359 --> 02:30:02.359
DAS, but happy to put it. Yeah. Yeah.

02:30:02.800 --> 02:30:04.936
And um I just worry that these people

02:30:04.960 --> 02:30:07.415
are here to listen about DAS. I'm happy

02:30:07.439 --> 02:30:08.856
to bring it up to the DAS if you like,

02:30:08.880 --> 02:30:10.536
but I think it's important these DAs get

02:30:10.560 --> 02:30:11.415
done.

02:30:11.439 --> 02:30:13.576
Mr. Bear in the same vein as councelor

02:30:13.600 --> 02:30:16.600
Elliot. I note that in the confidential

02:30:16.880 --> 02:30:19.016
papers we were given an extra piece of

02:30:19.040 --> 02:30:21.016
legal advice in relation to the upon

02:30:21.040 --> 02:30:24.040
quarry for us to

02:30:24.319 --> 02:30:27.319
deliberate upon the upon quarry. we

02:30:28.479 --> 02:30:30.295
should probably

02:30:30.319 --> 02:30:33.096
 go into confidential and talk about

02:30:33.120 --> 02:30:36.120
that legal advice because it relates to

02:30:36.399 --> 02:30:39.399
how the quarry may or may not be

02:30:40.880 --> 02:30:43.496
approved. I would also question whether

02:30:43.520 --> 02:30:45.576
it needs to remain confidential. So I

02:30:45.600 --> 02:30:48.216
would ask that we consider making it

02:30:48.240 --> 02:30:49.976
public because I think both sides should

02:30:50.000 --> 02:30:51.496
have access to it.

02:30:51.520 --> 02:30:54.520
How can we have a confidential meeting

02:30:54.640 --> 02:30:57.415
at the end of this with a legal advice

02:30:57.439 --> 02:30:59.256
that relates to a DA that we're required

02:30:59.280 --> 02:31:01.016
to discuss at the beginning of

02:31:01.040 --> 02:31:02.375
you're not discussing anything in the

02:31:02.399 --> 02:31:04.056
confidential. The confidential is an

02:31:04.080 --> 02:31:06.216
attachment. It is not a motion. The

02:31:06.240 --> 02:31:07.816
motion is in public and that is what

02:31:07.840 --> 02:31:09.496
you're assessing today. So what's in

02:31:09.520 --> 02:31:12.056
confidential is only an attachment to

02:31:12.080 --> 02:31:14.776
the business of the council. You're not

02:31:14.800 --> 02:31:16.776
discussing in confidential that business

02:31:16.800 --> 02:31:19.656
advice. So how do we then relate to the

02:31:19.680 --> 02:31:21.415
legal advice that's provided under

02:31:21.439 --> 02:31:23.415
confidential? Have you read it?

02:31:23.439 --> 02:31:24.056
Absolutely.

02:31:24.080 --> 02:31:25.976
So then you should be able to make your

02:31:26.000 --> 02:31:26.936
judgment from that.

02:31:26.960 --> 02:31:29.335
Right. And how do I then argue about

02:31:29.359 --> 02:31:32.136
bringing that make it public?

02:31:32.160 --> 02:31:34.856
 I mean I'm a little confused too by

02:31:34.880 --> 02:31:35.736
reading it.

02:31:35.760 --> 02:31:36.776
Yeah.

02:31:36.800 --> 02:31:38.616
There's confidential questions that we'd

02:31:38.640 --> 02:31:40.136
like to ask.

02:31:40.160 --> 02:31:41.896
Yeah. And we can go into confidential

02:31:41.920 --> 02:31:43.656
then and discuss those questions if you

02:31:43.680 --> 02:31:44.216
want to.

02:31:44.240 --> 02:31:45.736
But we need to do it before we assess

02:31:45.760 --> 02:31:48.760
the DA. But that's all part of

02:31:49.359 --> 02:31:50.936
so we can go into confidential. I'll

02:31:50.960 --> 02:31:52.136
remove everybody out of the room while

02:31:52.160 --> 02:31:53.816
we discuss that bit of the DA and then

02:31:53.840 --> 02:31:55.335
everybody comes back into the room.

02:31:55.359 --> 02:31:57.096
So I I would move therefore that we go

02:31:57.120 --> 02:31:58.856
into confidential to discuss the legal

02:31:58.880 --> 02:31:59.736
paper in relation

02:31:59.760 --> 02:32:01.896
when we get to that DA. That's fine.

02:32:01.920 --> 02:32:03.656
When when we get to the DA. Okay.

02:32:03.680 --> 02:32:04.375
Y

02:32:04.399 --> 02:32:06.136
thanks please. Thank you.

02:32:06.160 --> 02:32:07.896
Councelor Higgins haven't even started a

02:32:07.920 --> 02:32:09.176
motion yet.

02:32:09.200 --> 02:32:11.896
My apologies. I'm late to the meeting.

02:32:11.920 --> 02:32:14.920
Um, are we declaring disclosures of

02:32:14.960 --> 02:32:17.016
interest all together now? Even though

02:32:17.040 --> 02:32:19.496
it says to do it because I mean we might

02:32:19.520 --> 02:32:20.536
not get to half these.

02:32:20.560 --> 02:32:21.415
Yeah, you can still do. Have you got

02:32:21.439 --> 02:32:22.616
disclosure of interest that you would

02:32:22.640 --> 02:32:23.256
like to? Yep.

02:32:23.280 --> 02:32:23.816
Yes. Yes.

02:32:23.840 --> 02:32:25.496
Yeah. Sorry. What's yours?

02:32:25.520 --> 02:32:28.520
, the disability inclusion

02:32:31.040 --> 02:32:34.040
 committee membership is

02:32:36.720 --> 02:32:37.816
is 9.3.1.

02:32:37.840 --> 02:32:40.840
9.3.1. , as it turns out, I know at

02:32:41.840 --> 02:32:44.840
least three of the people who have put

02:32:45.359 --> 02:32:48.359
in an application. So, I should I will

02:32:48.399 --> 02:32:49.976
write that down and declare it.

02:32:50.000 --> 02:32:52.136
Yes. Thank you. And you

02:32:52.160 --> 02:32:53.176
Oh, I know. Four.

02:32:53.200 --> 02:32:56.200
And you're happy to stay.

02:32:56.240 --> 02:32:58.455
Sorry. Yeah. Do we I'd have to declare

02:32:58.479 --> 02:33:00.536
that same sort of thing.

02:33:00.560 --> 02:33:02.136
Sorry. Council

02:33:02.160 --> 02:33:03.896
It's up to you to declare things. I

02:33:03.920 --> 02:33:05.976
can't force you to declare things. It

02:33:06.000 --> 02:33:07.736
is, you know, we've been through this

02:33:07.760 --> 02:33:10.696
process of, you know, I don't think I

02:33:10.720 --> 02:33:12.216
need to leave the room or anything to be

02:33:12.240 --> 02:33:12.856
dramatic.

02:33:12.880 --> 02:33:13.256
No.

02:33:13.280 --> 02:33:13.656
Um,

02:33:13.680 --> 02:33:16.680
just because you know someone on a DA

02:33:18.960 --> 02:33:21.496
friendship could decision.

02:33:21.520 --> 02:33:24.295
No, even on that list, I didn't think it

02:33:24.319 --> 02:33:25.816
happened. It was

02:33:25.840 --> 02:33:27.335
all right. Moving on

02:33:27.359 --> 02:33:30.359
to caution.  7 7.1 original meeting

02:33:32.880 --> 02:33:35.576
held on the 16th of October 2025. Do I

02:33:35.600 --> 02:33:37.256
have a mover to move the office?

02:33:37.280 --> 02:33:38.776
Thank you. Chancellor Hopkins and

02:33:38.800 --> 02:33:40.616
councelor Davis. Any debate?

02:33:40.640 --> 02:33:41.896
No.

02:33:41.920 --> 02:33:43.256
Anyone against?

02:33:43.280 --> 02:33:44.295
Sorry.

02:33:44.319 --> 02:33:47.319
 sorry. 7.1. The original meeting held

02:33:47.680 --> 02:33:50.375
on the 16th of October 2025. Minutes

02:33:50.399 --> 02:33:50.856
the minutes.

02:33:50.880 --> 02:33:51.656
The minutes.

02:33:51.680 --> 02:33:54.680
Yes. Um Mr. May I did notice that um the

02:33:57.120 --> 02:34:00.120
minutes disappeared out of agenda papers

02:34:00.880 --> 02:34:02.455
again. So I would just like to request

02:34:02.479 --> 02:34:04.375
those come back in so we because it's

02:34:04.399 --> 02:34:05.736
just easier to consider them.

02:34:05.760 --> 02:34:07.096
Yeah. I think it was because we were

02:34:07.120 --> 02:34:10.120
late. Was that the reason?

02:34:17.680 --> 02:34:18.616
Yeah.

02:34:18.640 --> 02:34:19.176
I understand.

02:34:19.200 --> 02:34:20.696
So they would be in there usually.

02:34:20.720 --> 02:34:23.656
Um one just one item Mr. Mayor which was

02:34:23.680 --> 02:34:25.176
37425.

02:34:25.200 --> 02:34:26.536
I think it might have slipped out. There

02:34:26.560 --> 02:34:28.216
was an insurance report that was going

02:34:28.240 --> 02:34:29.736
to be provided to the December meeting.

02:34:29.760 --> 02:34:31.656
That was just an item from the minutes

02:34:31.680 --> 02:34:33.656
that um that we haven't seen. So I just

02:34:33.680 --> 02:34:36.375
wanted to put it

02:34:36.399 --> 02:34:38.136
I I simply haven't been able to complete

02:34:38.160 --> 02:34:40.375
that work yet. So that's why I haven't

02:34:40.399 --> 02:34:41.016
it's not that

02:34:41.040 --> 02:34:43.256
it's so has just got lost in the maze.

02:34:43.280 --> 02:34:43.736
It's just

02:34:43.760 --> 02:34:45.976
No, it's just I haven't had time to do

02:34:46.000 --> 02:34:48.856
that time frame set. Yes.

02:34:48.880 --> 02:34:51.880
We're on 7.1. Yes.

02:34:53.040 --> 02:34:54.216
Are you happy? Yeah.

02:34:54.240 --> 02:34:57.240
Um, well, more a question. There were

02:34:57.280 --> 02:34:59.256
two items that came up I think in the

02:34:59.280 --> 02:35:02.056
October or November one

02:35:02.080 --> 02:35:04.936
where we asked questions and there was

02:35:04.960 --> 02:35:06.776
supposed to be a followup but it's not

02:35:06.800 --> 02:35:09.736
in the minutes. When do I refer those?

02:35:09.760 --> 02:35:12.136
One was concerning the PIO where

02:35:12.160 --> 02:35:15.096
councelor Stewart asked for the cost.

02:35:15.120 --> 02:35:16.776
What did that cost to

02:35:16.800 --> 02:35:18.536
Was that a question taken on notice in

02:35:18.560 --> 02:35:20.776
October or November? I think it was

02:35:20.800 --> 02:35:22.455
November. So, I'm probably bringing it

02:35:22.479 --> 02:35:23.656
the wrong time.

02:35:23.680 --> 02:35:25.096
If it's November, it should be in this

02:35:25.120 --> 02:35:26.776
council meeting.

02:35:26.800 --> 02:35:28.375
It's not. No, that's where

02:35:28.399 --> 02:35:29.176
Okay, we'll follow that up. You

02:35:29.200 --> 02:35:31.256
want me to wait till

02:35:31.280 --> 02:35:33.976
we get 7.1? We're on. Any further

02:35:34.000 --> 02:35:36.375
debate? No. I'll put the motion. All

02:35:36.399 --> 02:35:39.399
those in favor adopt the minutes.

02:35:39.760 --> 02:35:42.136
Councelor Summers, Councelor Higgins,

02:35:42.160 --> 02:35:43.736
Councelor

02:35:43.760 --> 02:35:45.736
Stewart, Councelor Hopkins, Councelor

02:35:45.760 --> 02:35:47.256
Elliot, Councelor Rose, Councelor

02:35:47.280 --> 02:35:48.856
Rooney, Councelor Davis, Councelor

02:35:48.880 --> 02:35:50.295
Williamson, Councelor Hannah. All those

02:35:50.319 --> 02:35:51.415
against.

02:35:51.439 --> 02:35:53.096
I'm not voting, so you can write me as

02:35:53.120 --> 02:35:53.976
against.

02:35:54.000 --> 02:35:55.736
Thank you.

02:35:55.760 --> 02:35:58.760
Thank you. , moving on to 7.2 closed,

02:36:00.080 --> 02:36:01.256
, session of the original council

02:36:01.280 --> 02:36:02.776
meeting held on 16th. Thank you,

02:36:02.800 --> 02:36:05.176
councelor Davis. Any seconder, please?

02:36:05.200 --> 02:36:06.776
Councelor Elliot, thank you. Councelor

02:36:06.800 --> 02:36:07.736
Davis, any debate?

02:36:07.760 --> 02:36:10.760
No. Anyone against councelor Baylor?

02:36:11.040 --> 02:36:12.936
Um yes u

02:36:12.960 --> 02:36:15.335
you weren't here. I wasn't here and as I

02:36:15.359 --> 02:36:18.359
am a counselor now I returned from my

02:36:18.479 --> 02:36:20.216
sobatical I would have thought

02:36:20.240 --> 02:36:21.976
inappropriate for me to be able to

02:36:22.000 --> 02:36:23.816
access the minutes of these closed

02:36:23.840 --> 02:36:25.496
sessions of the meetings that I wasn't

02:36:25.520 --> 02:36:28.520
at because as a counselor even if I

02:36:29.359 --> 02:36:32.359
disagree with the motion if it is passed

02:36:32.960 --> 02:36:35.960
resolved my job is to uphold it and to

02:36:36.560 --> 02:36:38.295
promote that to the community or ensure

02:36:38.319 --> 02:36:40.696
it is done I can't see the minutes of

02:36:40.720 --> 02:36:43.335
the confidential meetings

02:36:43.359 --> 02:36:45.256
I don't know what was discussed or

02:36:45.280 --> 02:36:48.136
resolved or agreed or disagreed. And I

02:36:48.160 --> 02:36:50.375
think it's not unreasonable that I am a

02:36:50.399 --> 02:36:53.096
counselor. Have been at all times. I

02:36:53.120 --> 02:36:55.256
wasn't sacked. I was told to take a

02:36:55.280 --> 02:36:58.280
holiday and reflect. I've reflected.

02:36:58.960 --> 02:37:01.960
I've asked if I can have access to the

02:37:03.120 --> 02:37:05.016
confidential papers so that I can help

02:37:05.040 --> 02:37:08.040
you all uphold what was decided. So, I

02:37:09.040 --> 02:37:11.976
wonder how we might solve this impass.

02:37:12.000 --> 02:37:14.696
It might need legal advice. Maybe we can

02:37:14.720 --> 02:37:15.896
avoid that.

02:37:15.920 --> 02:37:17.736
, I think the CEO has answered your

02:37:17.760 --> 02:37:19.576
question on that a number of times now.

02:37:19.600 --> 02:37:20.936
So, you can bring it up with her next

02:37:20.960 --> 02:37:21.496
time again.

02:37:21.520 --> 02:37:23.415
Um, no, she has not answered.

02:37:23.439 --> 02:37:24.536
She has replied to your emails.

02:37:24.560 --> 02:37:26.056
She's replied to my emails, but she has

02:37:26.080 --> 02:37:27.176
not answered the question. There's a

02:37:27.200 --> 02:37:27.496
difference.

02:37:27.520 --> 02:37:28.536
Well, then you can take that up with the

02:37:28.560 --> 02:37:29.976
CEO at the time, but at this present

02:37:30.000 --> 02:37:31.415
time, I'm now two in the minutes, and

02:37:31.439 --> 02:37:33.016
you weren't here to confirm or deny what

02:37:33.040 --> 02:37:35.335
they were. Councelor Rose,

02:37:35.359 --> 02:37:37.335
Mr. Now, it has been a bit confusing

02:37:37.359 --> 02:37:38.616
because I've been I was trying to find

02:37:38.640 --> 02:37:41.640
out where those minutes were, but I I

02:37:42.399 --> 02:37:43.736
don't know if they're in a confidential

02:37:43.760 --> 02:37:44.696
part or

02:37:44.720 --> 02:37:46.056
Yes, in the big tin can they're in a

02:37:46.080 --> 02:37:46.776
confidential part.

02:37:46.800 --> 02:37:48.536
Okay. So, I just wasn't able to find

02:37:48.560 --> 02:37:49.976
those. So,

02:37:50.000 --> 02:37:51.096
no worries.

02:37:51.120 --> 02:37:54.120
No problem. Any further debate?

02:37:54.399 --> 02:37:57.399
No, I'll put the motion. Councelor,

02:37:57.680 --> 02:37:59.656
I'll put the motion. All those in favor?

02:37:59.680 --> 02:38:00.776
Move on.

02:38:00.800 --> 02:38:03.335
Thank you. Council Summers.

02:38:03.359 --> 02:38:06.136
Councelor Higgins. Councelor Stewart,

02:38:06.160 --> 02:38:07.576
Councelor Hopkins, Councelor Elliot,

02:38:07.600 --> 02:38:10.216
Councelor Rooney, Councelor Davis,

02:38:10.240 --> 02:38:12.216
Councel Williamson, Councelor Hannah.

02:38:12.240 --> 02:38:14.856
All those against, Councelor Rose, and

02:38:14.880 --> 02:38:17.880
Councelor Baylor. Carried. Moving on to

02:38:18.160 --> 02:38:20.056
7.3. Original council meeting held on

02:38:20.080 --> 02:38:22.136
the 20th of November. Councelor Davis

02:38:22.160 --> 02:38:24.216
moved. Do I have a second?

02:38:24.240 --> 02:38:25.576
Thank you, Council Summers. Councelor

02:38:25.600 --> 02:38:27.496
Davis,

02:38:27.520 --> 02:38:29.816
any questions or debate?

02:38:29.840 --> 02:38:31.415
That's where I bring it up. Yeah,

02:38:31.439 --> 02:38:32.616
that

02:38:32.640 --> 02:38:33.656
we will

02:38:33.680 --> 02:38:34.455
be missing.

02:38:34.479 --> 02:38:34.776
Yeah.

02:38:34.800 --> 02:38:36.776
Or I'm not sure how it gets hidden, but

02:38:36.800 --> 02:38:38.536
councelor Stewart asked

02:38:38.560 --> 02:38:39.896
the question.

02:38:39.920 --> 02:38:42.776
Yeah. Could council be provided with the

02:38:42.800 --> 02:38:45.496
cost of the PIO. Now, we didn't put it

02:38:45.520 --> 02:38:47.335
as a motion, but

02:38:47.359 --> 02:38:48.696
no, it should have been that. We'll um

02:38:48.720 --> 02:38:51.335
I'll follow that one up for you. and

02:38:51.359 --> 02:38:52.136
cost.

02:38:52.160 --> 02:38:53.496
Okay.

02:38:53.520 --> 02:38:56.520
And the other one was in quarterly

02:38:57.439 --> 02:39:00.439
review of costs. There was a $80,000

02:39:03.200 --> 02:39:05.656
overrun on the individual

02:39:05.680 --> 02:39:07.335
and we said we'll do a workshop on that

02:39:07.359 --> 02:39:08.216
one. I think

02:39:08.240 --> 02:39:10.936
um well, not only that,

02:39:10.960 --> 02:39:13.960
I'd say there had been a report or a

02:39:15.120 --> 02:39:17.736
submission put into council staff on the

02:39:17.760 --> 02:39:19.256
6th of July.

02:39:19.280 --> 02:39:21.816
Yes. And the next day I received a

02:39:21.840 --> 02:39:23.976
request. Could could they get a copy of

02:39:24.000 --> 02:39:25.816
it? I said it wasn't mine to give.

02:39:25.840 --> 02:39:26.375
Yeah.

02:39:26.399 --> 02:39:27.896
I copy Miss Boo.

02:39:27.920 --> 02:39:30.920
But I guess the thing is um

02:39:32.160 --> 02:39:35.160
the questions about the cost overrun um

02:39:36.399 --> 02:39:39.096
having been addressed. So how should I

02:39:39.120 --> 02:39:39.896
go about that? I

02:39:39.920 --> 02:39:41.736
think in the motion by memory I don't

02:39:41.760 --> 02:39:43.016
have the motion in front of me. It was

02:39:43.040 --> 02:39:45.176
to do a workshop  to bring that

02:39:45.200 --> 02:39:46.856
costing etc. Was that right? Was there a

02:39:46.880 --> 02:39:49.335
workshop or was it we discuss that?

02:39:49.359 --> 02:39:52.359
Not that I'm aware of.

02:39:52.960 --> 02:39:54.776
A report that was part of the motion.

02:39:54.800 --> 02:39:56.455
Yeah, there was a motion to come back.

02:39:56.479 --> 02:39:58.136
So, it hasn't come back yet. I'll follow

02:39:58.160 --> 02:39:59.816
that one up, too.

02:39:59.840 --> 02:40:01.415
Yeah, I'm not sure where the motion is

02:40:01.439 --> 02:40:03.816
either if that was the case.

02:40:03.840 --> 02:40:06.136
, the way we get it. I just don't want

02:40:06.160 --> 02:40:06.936
it to be lost.

02:40:06.960 --> 02:40:08.455
No, you're right. I It's It's on my

02:40:08.479 --> 02:40:10.136
list. I'll sort that out. Yeah.

02:40:10.160 --> 02:40:13.160
Thank you. Any further questions?

02:40:13.439 --> 02:40:16.439
Put the motion. All those in favor?

02:40:17.120 --> 02:40:20.120
Unanimous. Thank you. Moving on to

02:40:20.399 --> 02:40:23.399
7.4. Close session on  meeting on the

02:40:24.560 --> 02:40:27.560
20th of November. Do I have a move out?

02:40:27.600 --> 02:40:30.600
Councelor Davis and Council Taylor.

02:40:31.120 --> 02:40:34.120
Councelor Davis. Any debate?

02:40:34.720 --> 02:40:36.696
Anyone questions? No. I put the motion.

02:40:36.720 --> 02:40:39.656
All those in favor? Unanimous. Thank

02:40:39.680 --> 02:40:42.680
you. Moving on to

02:40:43.280 --> 02:40:45.736
 7.6 close session of extraordinary

02:40:45.760 --> 02:40:48.760
council meeting held on 2nd of December.

02:40:49.040 --> 02:40:50.455
Thank you councelor Than Councelor

02:40:50.479 --> 02:40:53.479
Davis. All those any debates

02:40:54.160 --> 02:40:56.856
all those in any questions? Sorry

02:40:56.880 --> 02:40:59.880
against I've got nothing against but but

02:41:00.080 --> 02:41:02.136
I'm having real problems with minutes

02:41:02.160 --> 02:41:04.136
finding finding the confidential minutes

02:41:04.160 --> 02:41:06.295
if if if there exist. So

02:41:06.319 --> 02:41:08.616
they are definitely I'll work with the

02:41:08.640 --> 02:41:10.216
IT team to work out how

02:41:10.240 --> 02:41:12.696
No problem. I'll put the motion. All

02:41:12.720 --> 02:41:15.720
those in favor

02:41:16.000 --> 02:41:19.000
councelor Summers councelor sorry Rose

02:41:19.120 --> 02:41:21.176
are you against the Yeah. Everybody but

02:41:21.200 --> 02:41:24.200
councelor Rose

02:41:25.200 --> 02:41:28.200
I just did 7

02:41:28.800 --> 02:41:31.496
oh that was a close on 7.6 six and sorry

02:41:31.520 --> 02:41:33.976
7.5 the extraordinary meeting held on

02:41:34.000 --> 02:41:36.696
the 2nd of December

02:41:36.720 --> 02:41:38.536
no we did the closed session sorry I

02:41:38.560 --> 02:41:39.976
didn't do that so I'm going to move it

02:41:40.000 --> 02:41:41.816
thank you councelor f second council

02:41:41.840 --> 02:41:44.136
Elliot thank you councel any questions

02:41:44.160 --> 02:41:47.160
no no debate or open the motion

02:41:48.240 --> 02:41:51.240
unanimous thank you okay moving on to

02:41:51.439 --> 02:41:53.976
planning 8.1 development applications

02:41:54.000 --> 02:41:57.000
10.2025.135.1 2025.135.1

02:41:58.720 --> 02:42:01.176
the Smith's Road RFS shed and community

02:42:01.200 --> 02:42:03.256
hall councelor Davis and councelor

02:42:03.280 --> 02:42:06.280
Rooney second council Davis

02:42:06.560 --> 02:42:08.616
no the report speaks for itself

02:42:08.640 --> 02:42:11.640
thank you anyone talking against

02:42:11.920 --> 02:42:13.576
no I'll put the motion all those in

02:42:13.600 --> 02:42:15.576
favor the recommendation the motion

02:42:15.600 --> 02:42:18.455
sorry is unanimous thank you moving on

02:42:18.479 --> 02:42:19.976
to

02:42:20.000 --> 02:42:22.375
8.2 too. Councelor Councelor Rose,

02:42:22.399 --> 02:42:24.616
sorry, had his hand up. Councelor Rose.

02:42:24.640 --> 02:42:27.640
Um, Mr. Mayor, I've got a I've got a um

02:42:28.560 --> 02:42:31.560
a motion I'd like to put up. I think um

02:42:31.600 --> 02:42:34.600
Jenny might have it there on the screen.

02:42:36.080 --> 02:42:37.176
Um

02:42:37.200 --> 02:42:38.375
if you can read it out, then I'll get a

02:42:38.399 --> 02:42:40.056
second and then you can debate.

02:42:40.080 --> 02:42:41.976
That council pursuant to section.

02:42:42.000 --> 02:42:44.375
No, sorry, that's not it. Is that it?

02:42:44.399 --> 02:42:46.776
No, planning. Yeah, that's it.

02:42:46.800 --> 02:42:48.216
Yeah, that's it.

02:42:48.240 --> 02:42:48.856
Motion.

02:42:48.880 --> 02:42:50.295
That's his motion. That's what council

02:42:50.319 --> 02:42:51.576
the That's what you're about to read

02:42:51.600 --> 02:42:54.375
out, aren't you? Council. Y

02:42:54.399 --> 02:42:56.696
um the council pursuant to 4 point

02:42:56.720 --> 02:42:58.936
section 4.161B of the environmental

02:42:58.960 --> 02:43:01.096
planning assessment act as amended

02:43:01.120 --> 02:43:04.120
refuse DA 10.24.221.1

02:43:05.520 --> 02:43:07.256
for a freight transport facility on lot

02:43:07.280 --> 02:43:10.280
307 and lot 308 DP750535

02:43:12.160 --> 02:43:14.616
carinder road for following reasons. The

02:43:14.640 --> 02:43:16.696
deal firstly the development will have

02:43:16.720 --> 02:43:18.455
an unacceptable impact on the built

02:43:18.479 --> 02:43:20.856
natural environment under consideration

02:43:20.880 --> 02:43:23.880
of section 4.151B.

02:43:24.479 --> 02:43:26.455
This is again of the EPNA act. The site

02:43:26.479 --> 02:43:27.896
is considered to be unsuitable for the

02:43:27.920 --> 02:43:30.216
development due to unacceptable impacts

02:43:30.240 --> 02:43:31.816
on the existing road network and

02:43:31.840 --> 02:43:33.096
surrounding developments under the

02:43:33.120 --> 02:43:36.120
consideration of 7.4151C.

02:43:37.439 --> 02:43:38.936
Three, council is not satisfied that the

02:43:38.960 --> 02:43:40.056
matters raised in the submission

02:43:40.080 --> 02:43:41.576
objecting to the development have been

02:43:41.600 --> 02:43:43.816
adequately addressed under section

02:43:43.840 --> 02:43:45.736
4.151D.

02:43:45.760 --> 02:43:47.415
And four, the consent authority has

02:43:47.439 --> 02:43:49.335
reviewed the public interest in

02:43:49.359 --> 02:43:52.359
accordance with section 4.151E and has

02:43:52.479 --> 02:43:54.696
not satisfied the proposed development

02:43:54.720 --> 02:43:56.856
is in the public interest.

02:43:56.880 --> 02:43:58.455
Right. Do I have a second?

02:43:58.479 --> 02:43:59.736
Point of order, Mr. Mayor.

02:43:59.760 --> 02:44:02.216
Yes. Under the code of meeting practice,

02:44:02.240 --> 02:44:05.240
a councelor may not propose an amendment

02:44:05.279 --> 02:44:08.279
which is a direct contradiction of the

02:44:08.319 --> 02:44:10.375
sorry it's not sorry thank you councelor

02:44:10.399 --> 02:44:13.399
I'll answer is not and there is no

02:44:13.439 --> 02:44:16.375
motion on the board he's moving a motion

02:44:16.399 --> 02:44:18.056
so it has not been moved yet it's

02:44:18.080 --> 02:44:19.736
recommendation is not a motion you can

02:44:19.760 --> 02:44:22.295
move what you want now it cannot be

02:44:22.319 --> 02:44:23.656
changed if it gets seconded

02:44:23.680 --> 02:44:24.856
I'm happy to second

02:44:24.880 --> 02:44:26.856
second thank you councelor failer so the

02:44:26.880 --> 02:44:29.176
motion now is on the board and we'll

02:44:29.200 --> 02:44:32.200
debate that councelor Rose, you've got

02:44:32.640 --> 02:44:34.216
your five minutes.

02:44:34.240 --> 02:44:37.240
Um Mr. Mayor, um I've had quite a few

02:44:37.760 --> 02:44:39.576
visits out to Carlinda Road, which I

02:44:39.600 --> 02:44:42.600
didn't know um previously at all, but

02:44:43.600 --> 02:44:45.096
without actually doing anything but to

02:44:45.120 --> 02:44:46.856
drive to the road, you'd know that this

02:44:46.880 --> 02:44:49.880
is actually  not a satisfactory site

02:44:50.080 --> 02:44:52.696
for this facility. And I don't take

02:44:52.720 --> 02:44:54.776
objection to the fact that facility like

02:44:54.800 --> 02:44:56.136
this is needed. It's just that the

02:44:56.160 --> 02:44:59.160
location, it's just not appropriate.

02:44:59.840 --> 02:45:02.776
Firstly, the land is zone AU1 primary

02:45:02.800 --> 02:45:04.776
production and the objectives of the

02:45:04.800 --> 02:45:06.455
zone are clear. They protect land

02:45:06.479 --> 02:45:08.375
agricultural land, minimize land use

02:45:08.399 --> 02:45:10.936
conflict and avoid traffic that exceeds

02:45:10.960 --> 02:45:13.960
the capacity of rural roads. So what is

02:45:14.640 --> 02:45:16.776
here is an industrial what we propose is

02:45:16.800 --> 02:45:18.776
an industrial freight facility which

02:45:18.800 --> 02:45:20.776
with large handstand areas, shipping

02:45:20.800 --> 02:45:23.176
containers, heavy vehicle movements,

02:45:23.200 --> 02:45:25.816
etc. It's not primary production clearly

02:45:25.840 --> 02:45:27.415
and it's not consistent with the purpose

02:45:27.439 --> 02:45:30.439
of RU1. It might be permissible but it

02:45:30.640 --> 02:45:32.455
doesn't mean it's appropriate. Secondly,

02:45:32.479 --> 02:45:34.295
the impacts.

02:45:34.319 --> 02:45:36.216
Carlaminda road is only 6 m wide in

02:45:36.240 --> 02:45:38.375
sections with deep table drains and

02:45:38.399 --> 02:45:40.696
council engineers say it must be widened

02:45:40.720 --> 02:45:42.936
to 8 m. Now there is a proposal to widen

02:45:42.960 --> 02:45:44.776
it but I don't think it's enough to

02:45:44.800 --> 02:45:46.455
actually deal with the issues that are

02:45:46.479 --> 02:45:49.096
going to be significant in when traffic

02:45:49.120 --> 02:45:51.496
comes along that road and this crosses

02:45:51.520 --> 02:45:54.056
crossings and large trucks coming along

02:45:54.080 --> 02:45:57.080
the road. Thirdly, the amenity is also a

02:45:57.680 --> 02:45:58.856
real concern that we've heard from

02:45:58.880 --> 02:46:01.335
various people today. The applicant

02:46:01.359 --> 02:46:03.736
seeks hours that we found for going from

02:46:03.760 --> 02:46:06.760
6 6 a.m. to 7 or 8:00 p.m. Um, even on

02:46:08.080 --> 02:46:09.656
the weekends, it's going to be a

02:46:09.680 --> 02:46:12.616
significant story here. But there's a

02:46:12.640 --> 02:46:14.616
very large number of trucks that were to

02:46:14.640 --> 02:46:17.176
come per per day, which would change the

02:46:17.200 --> 02:46:19.576
whole nature of the area. And I think

02:46:19.600 --> 02:46:22.136
we've heard um from Mr. mentioned that

02:46:22.160 --> 02:46:24.295
the the nearest home is not 400 m away.

02:46:24.319 --> 02:46:26.696
It's only 380 m away, but from the back

02:46:26.720 --> 02:46:28.936
sensors closer. So, there's going to be

02:46:28.960 --> 02:46:31.415
a very significant change in noise and

02:46:31.439 --> 02:46:33.176
headlights and various things because

02:46:33.200 --> 02:46:35.176
those those changes will be very

02:46:35.200 --> 02:46:37.176
significant in this rural setting. And

02:46:37.200 --> 02:46:39.255
we go when you go to Cam Road, even

02:46:39.279 --> 02:46:40.616
though this there's Bon beef at the

02:46:40.640 --> 02:46:42.536
start of it, it's a beautiful area. It's

02:46:42.560 --> 02:46:45.176
a just a completely um it's completely

02:46:45.200 --> 02:46:47.255
unsuitable to actually change the cipher

02:46:47.279 --> 02:46:49.415
here. So, it becomes a freight freight

02:46:49.439 --> 02:46:51.415
facility. And we've heard there are many

02:46:51.439 --> 02:46:53.656
other options. It would just change the

02:46:53.680 --> 02:46:56.216
whole nature of this area which I think

02:46:56.240 --> 02:46:58.216
would be in no one's interest and

02:46:58.240 --> 02:46:59.976
certainly not in the interests of the

02:47:00.000 --> 02:47:02.536
current residents. The community

02:47:02.560 --> 02:47:04.136
submissions are very clear, Mr. Mayor,

02:47:04.160 --> 02:47:06.136
and we've heard some very  useful

02:47:06.160 --> 02:47:09.160
submissions and I think that um  Mr.

02:47:09.520 --> 02:47:12.216
Mitch said that really there's been a

02:47:12.240 --> 02:47:14.536
lack of scrutiny about some of the of

02:47:14.560 --> 02:47:16.536
the claims in the submissions. And so I

02:47:16.560 --> 02:47:19.255
am concerned about these these issues

02:47:19.279 --> 02:47:21.255
where they align with our statutory

02:47:21.279 --> 02:47:24.279
authority under section.45.

02:47:24.560 --> 02:47:26.455
Finally, the public interest I think is

02:47:26.479 --> 02:47:29.335
really an important part of this story.

02:47:29.359 --> 02:47:30.936
As we've heard, the people that are

02:47:30.960 --> 02:47:32.616
living out there really are living in a

02:47:32.640 --> 02:47:35.255
quiet area. Um they do have m beef down

02:47:35.279 --> 02:47:37.176
the road, but they've known about that.

02:47:37.200 --> 02:47:39.496
Um there is the council, we've heard the

02:47:39.520 --> 02:47:42.520
council um waste area that's that's also

02:47:42.720 --> 02:47:44.616
there, but that's been there for a fair

02:47:44.640 --> 02:47:47.640
period of time. But this really is an

02:47:47.680 --> 02:47:50.056
area that's constrained currently. It

02:47:50.080 --> 02:47:52.295
would change the whole nature of the

02:47:52.319 --> 02:47:54.536
whole situation there. And I think the

02:47:54.560 --> 02:47:56.536
current residents would just have to to

02:47:56.560 --> 02:47:59.560
move out and um apply for freight zones

02:48:00.080 --> 02:48:01.415
themselves because I don't think that

02:48:01.439 --> 02:48:03.576
this is at all consistent with what's

02:48:03.600 --> 02:48:05.896
happening in the area. We've actually

02:48:05.920 --> 02:48:08.216
been on the process recently, Mr. Mayor,

02:48:08.240 --> 02:48:11.016
about looking at the whole story of our

02:48:11.040 --> 02:48:13.896
amenities and looking at the different

02:48:13.920 --> 02:48:16.616
zonings around the area. And there's a

02:48:16.640 --> 02:48:19.016
very clear story, as we've heard, we go

02:48:19.040 --> 02:48:21.096
back a long way. This was a long way out

02:48:21.120 --> 02:48:23.496
of town in those olden days, but but but

02:48:23.520 --> 02:48:24.856
there still it feels like you're a long

02:48:24.880 --> 02:48:26.056
way out of town when you're there. It's

02:48:26.080 --> 02:48:28.856
a it's a really interesting site. So, I

02:48:28.880 --> 02:48:30.936
think that most people will have been

02:48:30.960 --> 02:48:33.960
there, but a few a few visits from me. I

02:48:34.399 --> 02:48:37.255
just think it's it's just very clearly

02:48:37.279 --> 02:48:39.976
inappropriate and it's just not going to

02:48:40.000 --> 02:48:42.136
um be suitable for that area and it's

02:48:42.160 --> 02:48:43.656
going to cause major problems and

02:48:43.680 --> 02:48:45.576
upheavalss for the people in that site

02:48:45.600 --> 02:48:47.896
and I think is against  our own

02:48:47.920 --> 02:48:50.536
requirements under section 4.15 of the

02:48:50.560 --> 02:48:53.096
EPA Act as well under those particular

02:48:53.120 --> 02:48:56.120
areas. So, I think that really um I

02:48:57.439 --> 02:48:58.455
understand the issues for the

02:48:58.479 --> 02:49:00.616
applicants. I'm I understand they've got

02:49:00.640 --> 02:49:02.936
it they've got a problem  and I'm not

02:49:02.960 --> 02:49:04.856
anti-development in general, but this is

02:49:04.880 --> 02:49:07.016
an area where we change the whole nature

02:49:07.040 --> 02:49:09.415
of the situation. And so, Mr. Mayor, I

02:49:09.439 --> 02:49:12.056
just think that the correct outcome is a

02:49:12.080 --> 02:49:15.016
refusal of of this particular plan and

02:49:15.040 --> 02:49:17.896
try and keep things in the local area in

02:49:17.920 --> 02:49:19.176
Poland Black where we've got an

02:49:19.200 --> 02:49:20.776
industrial zone. Thank you.

02:49:20.800 --> 02:49:22.856
Thank you. someone speaking.

02:49:22.880 --> 02:49:25.096
Mr. Mac, if I could ask a question.

02:49:25.120 --> 02:49:26.056
Yes.

02:49:26.080 --> 02:49:29.080
Councelor Rose spoke to um it being

02:49:29.840 --> 02:49:32.840
non-compliant with sections of the

02:49:33.120 --> 02:49:36.120
Could I seek some advice on that from

02:49:36.640 --> 02:49:39.640
the  from the staff, please?

02:49:41.600 --> 02:49:44.600
Pass that on to Mr.

02:49:45.600 --> 02:49:47.816
So question which is which is the

02:49:47.840 --> 02:49:50.136
non-compliance you

02:49:50.160 --> 02:49:52.696
section councelor you're referring to

02:49:52.720 --> 02:49:53.656
the

02:49:53.680 --> 02:49:56.680
so if I suppose if we look at if we look

02:49:57.439 --> 02:49:59.656
at various sections um councelor

02:49:59.680 --> 02:50:02.680
Williamerson basically um section

02:50:03.520 --> 02:50:05.976
4.151A1

02:50:06.000 --> 02:50:08.856
is inconsistency with leap which is the

02:50:08.880 --> 02:50:11.880
RU1 zone one objectives the second one

02:50:12.880 --> 02:50:15.880
is 4.151B is likely impacts of the

02:50:16.399 --> 02:50:18.375
development that is traffic and road

02:50:18.399 --> 02:50:21.335
safety and amenity impacts suitability

02:50:21.359 --> 02:50:24.056
of the site is 4.151C

02:50:24.080 --> 02:50:25.976
under the EPA act because there's a

02:50:26.000 --> 02:50:29.000
range of road widening 4.151D

02:50:29.840 --> 02:50:32.776
the community submissions with planning

02:50:32.800 --> 02:50:35.096
concerns which we've heard today and

02:50:35.120 --> 02:50:37.096
then 4.151E

02:50:37.120 --> 02:50:40.056
the public interest the council must

02:50:40.080 --> 02:50:42.216
consider the board of public interest so

02:50:42.240 --> 02:50:43.496
approve improving a freight freight

02:50:43.520 --> 02:50:46.520
transport facility in RU1 land really

02:50:46.800 --> 02:50:49.096
undermines the integrity of our own EP

02:50:49.120 --> 02:50:50.936
and it sets a precedent for incremental

02:50:50.960 --> 02:50:53.960
industrial creep. So I I I just think

02:50:54.720 --> 02:50:56.616
from all those points of view it's it's

02:50:56.640 --> 02:50:58.616
quite a simple story here in terms of

02:50:58.640 --> 02:51:01.640
our requirements.

02:51:03.040 --> 02:51:06.040
Sorry perhaps my Mr. Mean my question is

02:51:06.399 --> 02:51:09.399
we wouldn't be considering this at all

02:51:09.920 --> 02:51:12.216
if it wasn't allowed under the yellow

02:51:12.240 --> 02:51:14.616
right

02:51:14.640 --> 02:51:16.375
you would you would have said don't be

02:51:16.399 --> 02:51:17.496
cancelled

02:51:17.520 --> 02:51:20.520
if if we sorry we'll get the staff

02:51:21.840 --> 02:51:24.840
it's  as outlined in the report the

02:51:25.359 --> 02:51:27.976
use is permissible use under the

02:51:28.000 --> 02:51:29.976
so it is on VA

02:51:30.000 --> 02:51:33.000
as as per the report

02:51:34.319 --> 02:51:35.496
that

02:51:35.520 --> 02:51:37.976
I'll debate. I'll speak against

02:51:38.000 --> 02:51:40.536
and am I able to foreshadow that if this

02:51:40.560 --> 02:51:42.056
is lost we would return to the original

02:51:42.080 --> 02:51:42.295
motion?

02:51:42.319 --> 02:51:44.776
You sure can.

02:51:44.800 --> 02:51:46.295
No foreshadow. You can foreshadow a

02:51:46.319 --> 02:51:49.319
motion.

02:51:49.760 --> 02:51:52.760
Um thank you. I I've spent some time

02:51:52.880 --> 02:51:55.496
getting my head around this development

02:51:55.520 --> 02:51:58.375
and again disclaimer I've owned land in

02:51:58.399 --> 02:52:00.616
Polo Flat since 2006 and I've been

02:52:00.640 --> 02:52:03.640
involved in 2009 where we talked about

02:52:03.760 --> 02:52:06.760
drainage issues and  the logical

02:52:07.120 --> 02:52:09.096
extension of where Polo Flat might grow

02:52:09.120 --> 02:52:12.120
over time. I also recall that the Snowy

02:52:12.720 --> 02:52:15.016
Hydro purchased the entirety of the

02:52:15.040 --> 02:52:17.736
airports on 440 acres. I regret not

02:52:17.760 --> 02:52:20.136
buying it myself. we didn't know was for

02:52:20.160 --> 02:52:23.160
sale and that entire piece of land is

02:52:24.640 --> 02:52:26.856
bor industrial zoned and it is

02:52:26.880 --> 02:52:28.616
completely unavailable to everybody. The

02:52:28.640 --> 02:52:30.936
only concession is the rural fire

02:52:30.960 --> 02:52:32.936
headquarters which has been constructed

02:52:32.960 --> 02:52:35.576
behind the current fire headquarters. So

02:52:35.600 --> 02:52:37.736
when we want to look at catering to

02:52:37.760 --> 02:52:40.760
industrial growth, we can't. We've

02:52:40.960 --> 02:52:42.856
pretty much run out of the boundaries.

02:52:42.880 --> 02:52:44.696
The western side of Polo Flat is

02:52:44.720 --> 02:52:46.295
constrained by scenic protection levels

02:52:46.319 --> 02:52:47.816
which is immediately under the

02:52:47.840 --> 02:52:50.295
communication tower. The northern end is

02:52:50.319 --> 02:52:51.736
constrained by residents and the

02:52:51.760 --> 02:52:54.216
racecourse. The eastern side is

02:52:54.240 --> 02:52:56.616
constrained by the Abatire which is a

02:52:56.640 --> 02:52:59.415
fairly intensive livestock industry. And

02:52:59.439 --> 02:53:02.439
to the south we've got the rifle range

02:53:03.439 --> 02:53:04.936
which is not going to give up its

02:53:04.960 --> 02:53:06.616
tenure.

02:53:06.640 --> 02:53:09.640
Polo Flat is basically run out of room.

02:53:10.000 --> 02:53:11.335
Now, my understanding of this

02:53:11.359 --> 02:53:12.616
development is it is they're not

02:53:12.640 --> 02:53:13.896
building an office out there. They're

02:53:13.920 --> 02:53:16.295
not locating staff. They're not having

02:53:16.319 --> 02:53:19.319
trucks, um, mechanic workshops and the

02:53:19.439 --> 02:53:22.056
like. It's a storage and parking

02:53:22.080 --> 02:53:25.016
facility to park trucks that aren't out

02:53:25.040 --> 02:53:27.976
otherwise on the road and the parking of

02:53:28.000 --> 02:53:29.496
shipping containers. So, there'll be

02:53:29.520 --> 02:53:30.936
some activity, but it is not an

02:53:30.960 --> 02:53:33.656
intensive activity as it would normally

02:53:33.680 --> 02:53:36.536
be in Polo Flat.

02:53:36.560 --> 02:53:39.560
We have to be careful that  we can

02:53:39.840 --> 02:53:42.696
allow businesses that don't appear to

02:53:42.720 --> 02:53:44.375
conform to the natural environment.

02:53:44.399 --> 02:53:45.976
Again, I'll make a disclaimer. I own a

02:53:46.000 --> 02:53:47.816
bill a business that used to be a

02:53:47.840 --> 02:53:50.840
sawmill and then is a scrapyard out at

02:53:51.439 --> 02:53:53.496
Nimville, which is a non-complying

02:53:53.520 --> 02:53:56.520
compliant development.

02:53:56.560 --> 02:53:59.560
So, we have to balance the interests of

02:53:59.920 --> 02:54:02.295
the people that live next to these

02:54:02.319 --> 02:54:03.816
pieces of land. You'll note my question

02:54:03.840 --> 02:54:05.496
that Mr. mention about how many blocks

02:54:05.520 --> 02:54:07.255
of land has he sold over his time as a

02:54:07.279 --> 02:54:09.656
real estate agent where neighbors of

02:54:09.680 --> 02:54:11.255
blocks of land that he sold might be

02:54:11.279 --> 02:54:12.616
annoyed about

02:54:12.640 --> 02:54:14.136
what the blocks of land were purchased

02:54:14.160 --> 02:54:15.736
for.

02:54:15.760 --> 02:54:17.656
Are you making a code of conduct? I'm

02:54:17.680 --> 02:54:19.096
happy to stop.

02:54:19.120 --> 02:54:20.295
Point of order it's called. It's not a

02:54:20.319 --> 02:54:22.056
code of conduct. Sorry, it's your point

02:54:22.080 --> 02:54:25.080
of order in regard to taking

02:54:25.840 --> 02:54:27.736
actually moving away from the debate and

02:54:27.760 --> 02:54:30.455
bringing a personal a person in the

02:54:30.479 --> 02:54:33.096
community into this discussion around

02:54:33.120 --> 02:54:36.120
his former business.

02:54:36.960 --> 02:54:38.136
I don't think it's point of order. I

02:54:38.160 --> 02:54:39.176
think he needs to stick to the motion,

02:54:39.200 --> 02:54:40.455
but I think it's point of order.

02:54:40.479 --> 02:54:42.295
Continue. Thank you. Happy to continue.

02:54:42.319 --> 02:54:44.375
And  what I was trying to get at is

02:54:44.399 --> 02:54:47.399
that communities and societies evolve

02:54:47.920 --> 02:54:50.136
through development. We don't always

02:54:50.160 --> 02:54:53.160
support every development idea. Some

02:54:53.200 --> 02:54:55.896
ideas are obviously ridiculous. Some

02:54:55.920 --> 02:54:57.896
ideas are moderately ridiculous. Some

02:54:57.920 --> 02:55:00.136
ideas are supportable. And some ideas

02:55:00.160 --> 02:55:03.160
are fantastic. There's a spectrum. This

02:55:03.359 --> 02:55:05.736
is probably somewhere in the middle.

02:55:05.760 --> 02:55:08.295
It's not ideal. But when we look at the

02:55:08.319 --> 02:55:10.216
broader context, we are going to have to

02:55:10.240 --> 02:55:11.736
expand our landfill. We've had these

02:55:11.760 --> 02:55:14.295
discussions. It is going to be expanded

02:55:14.319 --> 02:55:17.096
behind this actual facility. So the

02:55:17.120 --> 02:55:19.656
contemporary environment is a landfill

02:55:19.680 --> 02:55:21.816
going to expand possibly with the large

02:55:21.840 --> 02:55:23.656
compost facility, the intensive

02:55:23.680 --> 02:55:25.576
agriculture pursu pursuit with the

02:55:25.600 --> 02:55:27.976
abattoire on the hill which does have

02:55:28.000 --> 02:55:30.056
fridge trucks, fridge motors,

02:55:30.080 --> 02:55:32.936
significant refrigeration. I can hear it

02:55:32.960 --> 02:55:35.576
from across the valley in Polo Flat and

02:55:35.600 --> 02:55:38.295
I can hear the cows.

02:55:38.319 --> 02:55:39.976


02:55:40.000 --> 02:55:41.496
where are we going to put these trucks?

02:55:41.520 --> 02:55:43.255
We have embraced performance-based

02:55:43.279 --> 02:55:45.576
standards in the name of climate change,

02:55:45.600 --> 02:55:48.136
reducing diesel consumption, less trucks

02:55:48.160 --> 02:55:49.576
on the road by having another trailer

02:55:49.600 --> 02:55:51.896
on. Now, there is a couple of concerns

02:55:51.920 --> 02:55:53.976
with this in that we start with

02:55:54.000 --> 02:55:56.136
condition number one to prevent Aouble

02:55:56.160 --> 02:55:58.216
Trucks from accessing Colinda Road and

02:55:58.240 --> 02:56:00.616
yet the NHVR has assessed Colinda Road

02:56:00.640 --> 02:56:02.536
is suitable to Aouble Trucks

02:56:02.560 --> 02:56:04.056
specifically for this purpose and they

02:56:04.080 --> 02:56:07.080
have a permit to access their site. They

02:56:07.680 --> 02:56:10.216
have accepted the build of a BAL B which

02:56:10.240 --> 02:56:13.240
is not an insignificant thing addressing

02:56:13.680 --> 02:56:16.455
the traffic. Further disclaimer, believe

02:56:16.479 --> 02:56:18.136
it or not, I've done everything. I used

02:56:18.160 --> 02:56:19.976
to live on Nithong Road, which is just

02:56:20.000 --> 02:56:23.000
up around the corner in the old 

02:56:23.120 --> 02:56:24.696
homestead,

02:56:24.720 --> 02:56:26.936
so it's been a while, but I'm pretty

02:56:26.960 --> 02:56:29.415
familiar with that road. I'm not

02:56:29.439 --> 02:56:31.415
expecting to see significant numbers of

02:56:31.439 --> 02:56:34.056
trucks on that road beyond what already

02:56:34.080 --> 02:56:36.696
use it. We have stock trucks. We have a

02:56:36.720 --> 02:56:38.776
lot of cattle movements and  friends

02:56:38.800 --> 02:56:40.936
of mine got a horse rum rescuing

02:56:40.960 --> 02:56:43.576
business out there. It needs careful

02:56:43.600 --> 02:56:46.216
consideration and whilst I seconded the

02:56:46.240 --> 02:56:49.240
motion whilst I foreshadowed that this

02:56:49.359 --> 02:56:51.816
 ver this version should not be

02:56:51.840 --> 02:56:53.176
supported we should return to the

02:56:53.200 --> 02:56:55.576
original. We have had a bit of time to

02:56:55.600 --> 02:56:57.816
look at this and it is something that we

02:56:57.840 --> 02:56:59.736
can support. I'm not asking us to

02:56:59.760 --> 02:57:01.096
embrace it but it is something that we

02:57:01.120 --> 02:57:02.856
can support.

02:57:02.880 --> 02:57:05.335
We have to put these trucks somewhere

02:57:05.359 --> 02:57:08.359
because without trucks, Australia stops.

02:57:09.600 --> 02:57:12.216
You do have someone speaking for the

02:57:12.240 --> 02:57:14.295
motion.

02:57:14.319 --> 02:57:17.319
No. Anyone else like to talk against?

02:57:17.600 --> 02:57:18.696
Councelor Rose, would you like to write

02:57:18.720 --> 02:57:19.896
a reply?

02:57:19.920 --> 02:57:22.920
Um, I'll have a brief reply. Mr. Mayor,

02:57:23.279 --> 02:57:26.279
um, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I think this

02:57:26.399 --> 02:57:29.399
is a complicated  story to deal with.

02:57:29.680 --> 02:57:32.216
I understand the issues councelor Fowler

02:57:32.240 --> 02:57:34.936
has raised. Um catering to industrial

02:57:34.960 --> 02:57:37.960
growth is an issue. I think that this is

02:57:38.800 --> 02:57:41.016
the wrong solution though. I I I believe

02:57:41.040 --> 02:57:43.896
that this is a a situation which is very

02:57:43.920 --> 02:57:45.896
clear-cut. Not because there isn't a

02:57:45.920 --> 02:57:48.920
need but if you look at the use of the

02:57:49.040 --> 02:57:51.096
road and the amenity and the zoning,

02:57:51.120 --> 02:57:52.696
it's just inappropriate for us as

02:57:52.720 --> 02:57:55.415
council to take this this  this

02:57:55.439 --> 02:57:57.496
decision. So I think I think the story

02:57:57.520 --> 02:57:59.576
is quite clear-cut. I have sympathies

02:57:59.600 --> 02:58:01.335
for the people who have obviously got an

02:58:01.359 --> 02:58:04.359
issue  with a need for a facility to

02:58:04.720 --> 02:58:07.720
to park their trucks and um certainly

02:58:10.000 --> 02:58:11.896
without trucks Australia stops. I I

02:58:11.920 --> 02:58:14.136
don't disagree with that at all. I think

02:58:14.160 --> 02:58:16.375
that this though isn't the issue. The

02:58:16.399 --> 02:58:19.399
issue is really simple in terms of where

02:58:19.439 --> 02:58:22.375
we are, the zoning we have the the

02:58:22.399 --> 02:58:24.056
situation that we change the whole

02:58:24.080 --> 02:58:26.776
nature of that particular road on the

02:58:26.800 --> 02:58:29.800
basis of a change from rural residential

02:58:30.880 --> 02:58:33.656
to basically an industrial site. would

02:58:33.680 --> 02:58:35.496
change everything and would also cause

02:58:35.520 --> 02:58:37.736
us a lot of downstream impact because I

02:58:37.760 --> 02:58:39.976
think those numbers of roads those

02:58:40.000 --> 02:58:41.415
numbers of trucks going up and down the

02:58:41.439 --> 02:58:43.656
road will end up end up with a very

02:58:43.680 --> 02:58:45.335
significant cost for us in terms of

02:58:45.359 --> 02:58:47.896
council maintaining that road. So

02:58:47.920 --> 02:58:49.976
there's many issues around the traffic

02:58:50.000 --> 02:58:52.295
um there's not many issues around safety

02:58:52.319 --> 02:58:53.976
there's many issues around amenity but I

02:58:54.000 --> 02:58:56.375
think the bottom line is I think this is

02:58:56.399 --> 02:58:58.295
something that we just shouldn't support

02:58:58.319 --> 02:59:00.375
thank you Mr. Thank you. That I'll put

02:59:00.399 --> 02:59:02.136
the MO. Sorry, just to clarify, this

02:59:02.160 --> 02:59:03.656
doesn't get up. It will go down to the

02:59:03.680 --> 02:59:05.576
foreshadow motion.  that's council

02:59:05.600 --> 02:59:08.136
favors. All those in favor of the motion

02:59:08.160 --> 02:59:11.096
that's on the board there.

02:59:11.120 --> 02:59:14.120
Councelor Higgins, Councelor Stewart,

02:59:14.479 --> 02:59:17.479
Councelor Elliot, Councelor

02:59:17.680 --> 02:59:20.680
Rose, Councelor Davis, Councelor Hannah.

02:59:21.680 --> 02:59:24.136
All those against.

02:59:24.160 --> 02:59:26.856
Councelor Summers, Councelor Hopkins,

02:59:26.880 --> 02:59:29.880
Counselor Rooney, Counselor Sabat,

02:59:30.080 --> 02:59:33.080
Counselor Williamson,

02:59:34.479 --> 02:59:35.576
56.

02:59:35.600 --> 02:59:38.536
Sorry, it's passed. Carried.

02:59:38.560 --> 02:59:41.560
Thank you. Moving on.  8.3, the

02:59:42.399 --> 02:59:45.399
modification application of 10 point

02:59:45.680 --> 02:59:46.616
move.

02:59:46.640 --> 02:59:47.176
Move.

02:59:47.200 --> 02:59:49.335
Thank you. And second.

02:59:49.359 --> 02:59:52.359
Thank you, Council Davis.

02:59:53.040 --> 02:59:54.216
Summers,

02:59:54.240 --> 02:59:56.696
thank you. Mayor, I speak in favor of

02:59:56.720 --> 02:59:59.656
this application. I think it's quite

02:59:59.680 --> 03:00:01.976
pride as to the path we must take, which

03:00:02.000 --> 03:00:04.616
is to refuse the application towards the

03:00:04.640 --> 03:00:07.255
extension of crime. There are a range of

03:00:07.279 --> 03:00:09.656
reasons, not the least being our legal

03:00:09.680 --> 03:00:11.976
position. It's quite clear from the

03:00:12.000 --> 03:00:14.295
legal advice that we have been provided

03:00:14.319 --> 03:00:17.319
and from the discussions today that this

03:00:18.800 --> 03:00:21.800
um this this DA had a drop dead date of

03:00:22.319 --> 03:00:24.375
the 1st of December

03:00:24.399 --> 03:00:27.399
and although I am sympathetic to the um

03:00:27.680 --> 03:00:30.680
 the DA holders notion that they had a

03:00:31.600 --> 03:00:34.600
little notification I I think they

03:00:34.800 --> 03:00:36.536
already knew it was the 1 of December

03:00:36.560 --> 03:00:39.496
and it wasn't a DA  application that

03:00:39.520 --> 03:00:40.856
they have put and it was a a

03:00:40.880 --> 03:00:43.816
modification of the time frame and 

03:00:43.840 --> 03:00:46.840
that should have been um  alarms to

03:00:47.120 --> 03:00:49.896
them that they needed a plan B and the

03:00:49.920 --> 03:00:52.920
plan B obviously is a fresh DA but under

03:00:53.279 --> 03:00:55.415
the current rules and the current

03:00:55.439 --> 03:00:57.176
legislation which we to take into

03:00:57.200 --> 03:00:59.176
consideration um I'm going to raise a

03:00:59.200 --> 03:01:01.255
point of order yes

03:01:01.279 --> 03:01:03.656
we we can't contemplate suggesting that

03:01:03.680 --> 03:01:06.056
they should have had a plan B what we

03:01:06.080 --> 03:01:08.375
are actually here to discuss is the

03:01:08.399 --> 03:01:10.776
application to modify the existing DA,

03:01:10.800 --> 03:01:12.856
not theoretical alternate DAS or

03:01:12.880 --> 03:01:14.776
criticizing the owners for not having

03:01:14.800 --> 03:01:16.455
had a plan B.

03:01:16.479 --> 03:01:18.295
So I think we stick to the

03:01:18.319 --> 03:01:20.936
I think we stick, but I don't see that

03:01:20.960 --> 03:01:22.536
being a

03:01:22.560 --> 03:01:25.560
Yeah, thank you. I I um in the sorry

03:01:28.160 --> 03:01:29.896
that's lost my train of thought. I'm

03:01:29.920 --> 03:01:31.496
sure was the interruption.

03:01:31.520 --> 03:01:34.056
Sorry. Point of order.

03:01:34.080 --> 03:01:35.976
 making accusations against a

03:01:36.000 --> 03:01:37.896
counselor and impuging improper notice

03:01:37.920 --> 03:01:40.536
is inappropriate. You speak to the

03:01:40.560 --> 03:01:42.696
motion stick to the motion. I'll start

03:01:42.720 --> 03:01:43.176
again.

03:01:43.200 --> 03:01:43.496
Yeah.

03:01:43.520 --> 03:01:46.520
Thank you. I s I am support of the

03:01:46.720 --> 03:01:49.016
recommendation by the staff on the

03:01:49.040 --> 03:01:50.776
premise of my colleagues by thanking the

03:01:50.800 --> 03:01:53.255
staff for the very thorough job that has

03:01:53.279 --> 03:01:55.896
been done in assessing the application

03:01:55.920 --> 03:01:58.056
for the temporal extension which is what

03:01:58.080 --> 03:02:00.696
it is. It is not a D a new DA. is an

03:02:00.720 --> 03:02:03.656
extension of time.

03:02:03.680 --> 03:02:06.680
There is  there is no way that I can

03:02:06.800 --> 03:02:09.335
see that we cannot support what the

03:02:09.359 --> 03:02:12.295
staff have recommended. Law is the law

03:02:12.319 --> 03:02:14.696
and it's very black and white. I

03:02:14.720 --> 03:02:16.616
recognize that there are flow of effects

03:02:16.640 --> 03:02:19.335
such as employment and the lack of

03:02:19.359 --> 03:02:22.359
access to some of these products but 

03:02:22.479 --> 03:02:24.536
I risk my case on the basis of from a

03:02:24.560 --> 03:02:26.776
legal perspective we have no other

03:02:26.800 --> 03:02:29.656
alternative. Thank you. Thank you.

03:02:29.680 --> 03:02:32.216
Mr. Mayor, could I remind you of the

03:02:32.240 --> 03:02:33.656
earlier discussion

03:02:33.680 --> 03:02:36.455
if someone like

03:02:36.479 --> 03:02:36.936
move it?

03:02:36.960 --> 03:02:39.335
I I actually seek to move, Mr. Mayor,

03:02:39.359 --> 03:02:41.016
that we go into confidential so that we

03:02:41.040 --> 03:02:41.496
can actually

03:02:41.520 --> 03:02:42.776
Do I have a second?

03:02:42.800 --> 03:02:43.335
Awesome.

03:02:43.359 --> 03:02:44.776
Thank you, Council Woman. All those in

03:02:44.800 --> 03:02:46.455
favor to go confidential to discuss that

03:02:46.479 --> 03:02:47.096
business.

03:02:47.120 --> 03:02:49.335
Just to to explain, I I think

03:02:49.359 --> 03:02:49.816
councilors,

03:02:49.840 --> 03:02:51.176
you don't need to explain.

03:02:51.200 --> 03:02:52.936
Well, I think do because we've been

03:02:52.960 --> 03:02:53.496
asked to.

03:02:53.520 --> 03:02:55.335
Sorry. It's a it's a thing. You don't

03:02:55.359 --> 03:02:57.255
I've moved. Don't I get to explain why I

03:02:57.279 --> 03:02:57.816
move?

03:02:57.840 --> 03:02:58.936
Your motion. You don't you don't need

03:02:58.960 --> 03:03:01.335
to. All those in favor to go into

03:03:01.359 --> 03:03:04.359
confidential.

03:03:05.520 --> 03:03:07.496
Council Elliot, Councelor Rose,

03:03:07.520 --> 03:03:09.816
Councelor Rooney, Councelor Faylor,

03:03:09.840 --> 03:03:12.136
Council Williamson.

03:03:12.160 --> 03:03:14.536
All those against

03:03:14.560 --> 03:03:17.096
Councelor Summers, Councelor Higgins,

03:03:17.120 --> 03:03:20.120
Councelor Stewart, Councelor Hopkins,

03:03:20.399 --> 03:03:23.399
Councelor Davis,

03:03:24.240 --> 03:03:25.096
your mic's off.

03:03:25.120 --> 03:03:25.896
Oh, sorry.

03:03:25.920 --> 03:03:27.496
Your mic's been into your mic. Sorry, my

03:03:27.520 --> 03:03:28.616
mic was off.

03:03:28.640 --> 03:03:31.640
Yeah. Well, we got Yeah. No, that's

03:03:31.920 --> 03:03:33.736
against. Thank you.

03:03:33.760 --> 03:03:35.016
We're not moving into

03:03:35.040 --> 03:03:36.696
Council F. Do you want to debate?

03:03:36.720 --> 03:03:37.335
I do.

03:03:37.359 --> 03:03:38.455
Are you against?

03:03:38.479 --> 03:03:39.415
I am.

03:03:39.439 --> 03:03:41.016
Thank you.

03:03:41.040 --> 03:03:44.040
 there's there's been a great deal of

03:03:45.680 --> 03:03:48.680
emotion brought to this matter both

03:03:48.880 --> 03:03:51.880
through the speeches and with the

03:03:51.920 --> 03:03:54.920
opening council summons. Councelor Sam

03:03:55.040 --> 03:03:57.096
says that it's black and white and that

03:03:57.120 --> 03:04:00.120
it's clear. It's not the legal advice.

03:04:01.200 --> 03:04:02.936
Now that we are constrained by having

03:04:02.960 --> 03:04:05.335
the legal advice hidden behind a cloak

03:04:05.359 --> 03:04:07.816
of secrecy as it were, I would have much

03:04:07.840 --> 03:04:10.840
rather lay the legal advice on the table

03:04:11.040 --> 03:04:12.696
without revealing anything in

03:04:12.720 --> 03:04:15.016
particular.

03:04:15.040 --> 03:04:18.040
The legislation, the EPA act section 455

03:04:19.120 --> 03:04:22.120
subsection 1A is how this application

03:04:22.399 --> 03:04:25.399
was brought and it deals with  various

03:04:26.880 --> 03:04:29.880
tests that a proponent must go through

03:04:30.479 --> 03:04:33.255
and big one is the substantially the

03:04:33.279 --> 03:04:35.255
same test.

03:04:35.279 --> 03:04:37.896
There was an application made in 1999

03:04:37.920 --> 03:04:39.896
company by an EIS to dig a big hole in

03:04:39.920 --> 03:04:42.776
the ground. And in in the short version

03:04:42.800 --> 03:04:44.455
of this story, they haven't finished

03:04:44.479 --> 03:04:47.479
digging the big hole. To finish digging

03:04:47.520 --> 03:04:48.856
the big hole, they have to do some

03:04:48.880 --> 03:04:50.455
rehabilitation.

03:04:50.479 --> 03:04:52.455
The word that they do have sufficient

03:04:52.479 --> 03:04:55.176
soil on top remaining on site to engage

03:04:55.200 --> 03:04:57.415
in rehabilitation. One of the arguments

03:04:57.439 --> 03:04:59.576
I would like you to consider is that

03:04:59.600 --> 03:05:01.976
part of the re rehabilitation plan, if

03:05:02.000 --> 03:05:03.496
you had got that far in the business

03:05:03.520 --> 03:05:06.216
papers, is that it's like a little lake

03:05:06.240 --> 03:05:08.455
when they're finished.

03:05:08.479 --> 03:05:10.455
You can't make a little lake till you

03:05:10.479 --> 03:05:12.856
finish digging the hole. We also need to

03:05:12.880 --> 03:05:14.616
have the sides of the quarry battered

03:05:14.640 --> 03:05:17.640
back and benched. I say we as not me,

03:05:17.760 --> 03:05:20.760
but we require that. And that's not

03:05:21.520 --> 03:05:23.255
going to be done at the moment. So if

03:05:23.279 --> 03:05:24.856
there is a drop deadad hammer on any

03:05:24.880 --> 03:05:27.176
further works on this quarry, how does

03:05:27.200 --> 03:05:28.536
the owner

03:05:28.560 --> 03:05:31.016
rehabilitate without some further

03:05:31.040 --> 03:05:34.040
blasting and rock removal to bench the

03:05:34.240 --> 03:05:36.536
sides back to complete the lake

03:05:36.560 --> 03:05:37.976
component at the bottom per the

03:05:38.000 --> 03:05:39.896
rehabilitation plan. We've heard that

03:05:39.920 --> 03:05:41.656
there are some 25 jobs. You heard that

03:05:41.680 --> 03:05:43.016
the tourists are not going to come to

03:05:43.040 --> 03:05:46.040
Ginderbine because of the lake not come.

03:05:47.200 --> 03:05:49.896
I've struggled to understand how

03:05:49.920 --> 03:05:51.656
tourists are going to be dissuaded from

03:05:51.680 --> 03:05:52.856
visiting the snowy mountains or

03:05:52.880 --> 03:05:54.776
Gindabine because of these quaries. I

03:05:54.800 --> 03:05:57.016
remind the tourists that they drive on a

03:05:57.040 --> 03:05:59.896
road that's made from products that come

03:05:59.920 --> 03:06:02.536
from quaries.

03:06:02.560 --> 03:06:05.176
I bought the newspapers

03:06:05.200 --> 03:06:06.696
in

03:06:06.720 --> 03:06:09.255
and I  highlight December 3rd edition

03:06:09.279 --> 03:06:10.696
of the Monero Post where it say it's

03:06:10.720 --> 03:06:13.576
crunch time for CBD with six retail

03:06:13.600 --> 03:06:15.415
businesses set to close their doors in

03:06:15.439 --> 03:06:17.496
Puma. I don't think it's a different

03:06:17.520 --> 03:06:19.816
story in Gindervine and many other towns

03:06:19.840 --> 03:06:22.616
around the area. Is this council going

03:06:22.640 --> 03:06:25.640
to force some 25 people to not have a

03:06:26.319 --> 03:06:28.536
job? They can't come to Kuma and get a

03:06:28.560 --> 03:06:30.776
job because there's no jobs in Kuma.

03:06:30.800 --> 03:06:33.496
We're closing businesses.

03:06:33.520 --> 03:06:36.520
We have to be very careful with how we

03:06:37.359 --> 03:06:40.136
do a social evaluation.

03:06:40.160 --> 03:06:42.295
To say that, oh, there's trees that are

03:06:42.319 --> 03:06:44.056
going to come down. The trees have come

03:06:44.080 --> 03:06:47.080
down because rock is under trees. Pull

03:06:47.359 --> 03:06:48.936
the trees out of the way. You dig the

03:06:48.960 --> 03:06:50.936
rock up. You put some dirt back and you

03:06:50.960 --> 03:06:53.176
plant new trees. I've looked at the

03:06:53.200 --> 03:06:55.016
aerial photographs. There's more trees

03:06:55.040 --> 03:06:57.576
now than there were when the DA was last

03:06:57.600 --> 03:07:00.600
extended. We've heard some quite strong

03:07:00.960 --> 03:07:03.335
legal verbiage

03:07:03.359 --> 03:07:06.056
that the DA can't be extended, that it

03:07:06.080 --> 03:07:09.080
no longer exists. And we did training

03:07:09.840 --> 03:07:12.776
only a few weeks ago where we were

03:07:12.800 --> 03:07:15.415
trained that DA's

03:07:15.439 --> 03:07:18.439
don't just fail to exist. They are a

03:07:18.479 --> 03:07:21.255
permanent approval attached to land. So

03:07:21.279 --> 03:07:23.896
the quarry, the whole is permanently

03:07:23.920 --> 03:07:26.056
approved to be there. It's not finished

03:07:26.080 --> 03:07:28.936
yet. The point is, is it substantially

03:07:28.960 --> 03:07:30.536
the same? Has it exceeded its

03:07:30.560 --> 03:07:32.856
boundaries? The information is it

03:07:32.880 --> 03:07:35.255
hasn't. Has anyone complained? The

03:07:35.279 --> 03:07:37.255
proponents say they haven't had

03:07:37.279 --> 03:07:39.736
complaints. Have any rocks blasted their

03:07:39.760 --> 03:07:42.760
way through the greenhouse?

03:07:42.880 --> 03:07:45.880
No. Have there been some problems? Yes.

03:07:47.279 --> 03:07:49.496
I drive a truck. People get the shits,

03:07:49.520 --> 03:07:51.816
but I park it in the main street of Kuma

03:07:51.840 --> 03:07:54.840
cuz it says no parking for big trucks.

03:07:55.120 --> 03:07:57.176
Sometimes you got no choice. Give and

03:07:57.200 --> 03:07:59.415
take. This community is about give and

03:07:59.439 --> 03:08:01.976
take.

03:08:02.000 --> 03:08:04.216
The high school is built with products

03:08:04.240 --> 03:08:07.176
from that quarry. Clay pits car park

03:08:07.200 --> 03:08:09.415
built products from that quarry. High

03:08:09.439 --> 03:08:11.255
school built with products from that

03:08:11.279 --> 03:08:13.976
quarry. The library built with products

03:08:14.000 --> 03:08:16.536
from the quarry except bits that we

03:08:16.560 --> 03:08:19.335
stuck on the wall. They came from China.

03:08:19.359 --> 03:08:21.255
So,

03:08:21.279 --> 03:08:24.279
we should allow the McMmans and their

03:08:26.560 --> 03:08:29.560
staff and those jobs.

03:08:29.600 --> 03:08:31.496
I've recommended a consideration of 10

03:08:31.520 --> 03:08:34.375
more years. I asked both sides if that

03:08:34.399 --> 03:08:36.936
was acceptable.

03:08:36.960 --> 03:08:38.696
One side believes they could. They

03:08:38.720 --> 03:08:40.375
wanted 40. I've asked them, can you

03:08:40.399 --> 03:08:42.936
accept 10? Can you finish with your

03:08:42.960 --> 03:08:45.960
quarry in 10 years? We could allow this

03:08:46.720 --> 03:08:49.720
to conclude and then be rehabilitated.

03:08:50.479 --> 03:08:53.335
Thank you, councelor time. , anyone

03:08:53.359 --> 03:08:56.056
talking for the motion?

03:08:56.080 --> 03:08:58.056
Mr. Mayor, I have a question if that's

03:08:58.080 --> 03:08:58.455
okay.

03:08:58.479 --> 03:08:59.335
Yes.

03:08:59.359 --> 03:09:02.359
Um, what is the situation in terms of

03:09:04.800 --> 03:09:07.800
so so if the if the matters refused

03:09:08.160 --> 03:09:08.856
today?

03:09:08.880 --> 03:09:11.816
Mhm. What is the situation in terms of

03:09:11.840 --> 03:09:14.840
the rehabilitation of a quarry quarry?

03:09:15.439 --> 03:09:18.439
Will the owners of the quarry need to

03:09:19.600 --> 03:09:22.600
 do further excavation

03:09:23.120 --> 03:09:26.120
to deliver on the agreed rehabilitation

03:09:26.960 --> 03:09:29.960
plan? Will they be allowed to do that?

03:09:30.800 --> 03:09:32.696
 and if they're not allowed, what does

03:09:32.720 --> 03:09:35.016
that mean for the agreed rehabilitation

03:09:35.040 --> 03:09:38.040
of the site? I'll refer that to

03:09:38.240 --> 03:09:40.696
acting CEO.

03:09:40.720 --> 03:09:43.720
I'll answer partially and may then I'll

03:09:44.080 --> 03:09:46.856
pass Mr. Gette. So if there's conditions

03:09:46.880 --> 03:09:49.335
in the consent that require remediation

03:09:49.359 --> 03:09:50.776
then they still would have to comply

03:09:50.800 --> 03:09:52.136
with those conditions to do the

03:09:52.160 --> 03:09:55.016
remediation. If as part of that they

03:09:55.040 --> 03:09:57.016
required other works to be done then

03:09:57.040 --> 03:09:59.255
they would have to try and seek consent

03:09:59.279 --> 03:10:01.255
for that or they may have to find

03:10:01.279 --> 03:10:03.576
alternate means of how they would meet

03:10:03.600 --> 03:10:05.176
their requirements to remediate the

03:10:05.200 --> 03:10:06.375
quarry.

03:10:06.399 --> 03:10:08.536
So they might need to come back to get

03:10:08.560 --> 03:10:11.560
consent to do some further removal to

03:10:12.880 --> 03:10:14.696
facilitate the

03:10:14.720 --> 03:10:17.096
I cannot speculate on how they would

03:10:17.120 --> 03:10:18.776
achieve the remediation. So

03:10:18.800 --> 03:10:21.800
okay thank you.

03:10:22.000 --> 03:10:25.000
Excellent. Councelor Davis fall.

03:10:25.680 --> 03:10:27.496
 yes, but I'd like to ask some

03:10:27.520 --> 03:10:30.056
questions first. Secly,

03:10:30.080 --> 03:10:31.896
have there been complaints in regards to

03:10:31.920 --> 03:10:34.216
the

03:10:34.240 --> 03:10:36.696
I'll pass that one on Mr. Go

03:10:36.720 --> 03:10:39.255
through through you, Mr. Mayor. Yes, we

03:10:39.279 --> 03:10:41.176
have received complaints which we're

03:10:41.200 --> 03:10:43.576
investigating. Um there has been

03:10:43.600 --> 03:10:46.600
discussions raised in the public forum

03:10:47.520 --> 03:10:50.520
in regards to fencing safety fence and

03:10:51.279 --> 03:10:54.279
council had written to the owner to

03:10:54.800 --> 03:10:56.776
undertake that work and that was done

03:10:56.800 --> 03:10:59.800
straight away. So um  and we did a

03:11:00.720 --> 03:11:03.016
reinspection of that work. So but the

03:11:03.040 --> 03:11:04.216
the other complaints we're still

03:11:04.240 --> 03:11:05.976
investigating that those matters

03:11:06.000 --> 03:11:08.295
and then the proponent has been advised

03:11:08.319 --> 03:11:09.656
of those complaints?

03:11:09.680 --> 03:11:12.680
Not not to date.

03:11:14.399 --> 03:11:16.776
I'm going to talk to the recommendation

03:11:16.800 --> 03:11:19.736
and the recommendation on the DA is that

03:11:19.760 --> 03:11:22.760
the current DA has expired.

03:11:24.160 --> 03:11:27.160
The proponents can put in a new DA

03:11:28.319 --> 03:11:31.319
at any time, but we cannot extend a DA

03:11:32.960 --> 03:11:34.776
that's already expired.

03:11:34.800 --> 03:11:37.576
Point of order. Point to order. that

03:11:37.600 --> 03:11:39.896
information is  exactly at odds with

03:11:39.920 --> 03:11:41.816
the legal advice that all counselors

03:11:41.840 --> 03:11:43.896
have been provided. I'm happy to cite it

03:11:43.920 --> 03:11:46.920
if we release the

03:11:48.319 --> 03:11:49.656
I can take you to the line.

03:11:49.680 --> 03:11:51.736
I know councelor Taylor.

03:11:51.760 --> 03:11:53.496
Um but it's a mischaracterizational

03:11:53.520 --> 03:11:54.936
debate and it's a demonstrabably false

03:11:54.960 --> 03:11:56.375
piece of information. I raise a point of

03:11:56.399 --> 03:11:58.375
order because if we look at the legal

03:11:58.399 --> 03:12:01.399
advice that is not what it says

03:12:02.399 --> 03:12:04.455
but I'm in an idious position because no

03:12:04.479 --> 03:12:06.856
council patter so am I.

03:12:06.880 --> 03:12:08.375
, councelor Davis, if you can just

03:12:08.399 --> 03:12:09.496
stick to the motion that's in front of

03:12:09.520 --> 03:12:11.496
you, please.

03:12:11.520 --> 03:12:14.216
The DA's expired. It's asking for a

03:12:14.240 --> 03:12:16.776
modification on a DA that's been expired

03:12:16.800 --> 03:12:17.816
for 40 years.

03:12:17.840 --> 03:12:20.056
Point of order favor.

03:12:20.080 --> 03:12:22.536
The DA has not expired. There is a

03:12:22.560 --> 03:12:24.696
temporal time limit upon extraction.

03:12:24.720 --> 03:12:26.136
There are in fact two temporal time

03:12:26.160 --> 03:12:28.056
limits on the DA. One is the maximum

03:12:28.080 --> 03:12:28.616
amount of

03:12:28.640 --> 03:12:30.136
Sorry,

03:12:30.160 --> 03:12:32.056
it's not a correct characterization of

03:12:32.080 --> 03:12:32.776
the debate.

03:12:32.800 --> 03:12:35.176
The DA The DA has expired on the 1st of

03:12:35.200 --> 03:12:36.616
December. No, it hasn't missed it.

03:12:36.640 --> 03:12:37.736
It has.

03:12:37.760 --> 03:12:39.255
I'll refer that to the staff then for

03:12:39.279 --> 03:12:41.816
clarification.

03:12:41.840 --> 03:12:43.896
Sorry. Want to clarify. There's a DA

03:12:43.920 --> 03:12:46.616
being.

03:12:46.640 --> 03:12:48.696
Okay. Um

03:12:48.720 --> 03:12:51.016
the

03:12:51.040 --> 03:12:53.176
condition number two, the position that

03:12:53.200 --> 03:12:55.335
is being put forward to council for

03:12:55.359 --> 03:12:58.359
consideration. the the position that's

03:12:58.560 --> 03:13:01.560
been put forward is that the consent

03:13:03.680 --> 03:13:06.680
um has not um expired. It's only the

03:13:07.600 --> 03:13:10.216
extractive industry of undertaking the

03:13:10.240 --> 03:13:12.455
extraction has expired.

03:13:12.479 --> 03:13:15.255
So point two of the the consent has

03:13:15.279 --> 03:13:15.976
expired.

03:13:16.000 --> 03:13:18.616
Yes. And you cannot undertake that

03:13:18.640 --> 03:13:21.576
without further approval of council.

03:13:21.600 --> 03:13:24.600
Thank you.

03:13:25.680 --> 03:13:27.255
Clarification.

03:13:27.279 --> 03:13:30.279
Yes. Yeah, that

03:13:30.960 --> 03:13:33.960
what what's the situation that that um

03:13:36.160 --> 03:13:39.160
the applicant put in early say March and

03:13:39.760 --> 03:13:42.760
council we there was the the delay in

03:13:44.239 --> 03:13:45.816
council

03:13:45.840 --> 03:13:48.840
meeting that deadline of December one on

03:13:49.359 --> 03:13:51.976
on the determination of of the position.

03:13:52.000 --> 03:13:55.000
This seems to be in my eyes one of the

03:13:56.319 --> 03:13:59.319
contentious issues with this process

03:13:59.600 --> 03:14:02.600
that and and that means that the um it's

03:14:02.880 --> 03:14:05.880
expired. Um, can can you just give us

03:14:06.640 --> 03:14:09.640
some a rundown of

03:14:09.920 --> 03:14:12.536
why that occurred and why we didn't meet

03:14:12.560 --> 03:14:15.560
that obligation by by December one?

03:14:17.040 --> 03:14:20.040
Well, December two on, can you sure? Um,

03:14:21.840 --> 03:14:24.536
sure. No problem. Um, so as you're

03:14:24.560 --> 03:14:27.560
aware, the the application was lodged on

03:14:28.239 --> 03:14:30.536
the 18th of March, I think it was the

03:14:30.560 --> 03:14:33.096
date. And throughout that process we

03:14:33.120 --> 03:14:36.120
went through the notification period and

03:14:36.560 --> 03:14:38.056
um

03:14:38.080 --> 03:14:40.455
 as part of that there was significant

03:14:40.479 --> 03:14:43.479
submissions received and as you can

03:14:44.479 --> 03:14:46.856
probably appreciate which I hope you can

03:14:46.880 --> 03:14:48.455
appreciate that this is not a

03:14:48.479 --> 03:14:51.479
straightforward modification. Um there's

03:14:51.520 --> 03:14:53.576
significant legal issues that have to be

03:14:53.600 --> 03:14:56.600
addressed in this. Um the application is

03:14:57.359 --> 03:15:00.359
for 40 years um which is a significant

03:15:00.399 --> 03:15:01.736
amount of time

03:15:01.760 --> 03:15:04.760
and staff have been working feverishly

03:15:05.279 --> 03:15:07.656
in the background to make sure that both

03:15:07.680 --> 03:15:10.215
the community and the applicants um

03:15:10.239 --> 03:15:12.215
we've addressed all the issues so that

03:15:12.239 --> 03:15:14.215
they are both and we are given an

03:15:14.239 --> 03:15:17.176
independent assessment for st for

03:15:17.200 --> 03:15:20.200
counselors to assess. it. Okay. So, um

03:15:20.640 --> 03:15:23.640
yes, it's taken longer than um we would

03:15:24.399 --> 03:15:27.399
have hoped. However, um we wanted to

03:15:28.239 --> 03:15:29.896
make sure that we got that right. There

03:15:29.920 --> 03:15:31.096
was addition, you know, there is

03:15:31.120 --> 03:15:32.936
additional information that came in in

03:15:32.960 --> 03:15:35.960
November which we had to consider. Um

03:15:36.720 --> 03:15:39.576
and there are considerable t time frames

03:15:39.600 --> 03:15:41.576
that are placed on staff to get reports

03:15:41.600 --> 03:15:43.896
to council and some counselors have been

03:15:43.920 --> 03:15:46.920
pushing to get this to before the today.

03:15:47.359 --> 03:15:50.359
M um but that's um as I said it's it's a

03:15:52.479 --> 03:15:54.215
significant development that needed

03:15:54.239 --> 03:15:57.239
considerable assessment. So um and the

03:15:58.560 --> 03:16:00.536
submissions were provided there was some

03:16:00.560 --> 03:16:02.616
comment I will mention that submissions

03:16:02.640 --> 03:16:05.640
were provided to the applicant and they

03:16:05.840 --> 03:16:08.295
did respond to that. Um so we then had

03:16:08.319 --> 03:16:11.016
to assess that again. So there is um

03:16:11.040 --> 03:16:12.936
it's a a fair body of work that we had

03:16:12.960 --> 03:16:13.496
to assess.

03:16:13.520 --> 03:16:16.520
Yeah. No, that's good.

03:16:17.040 --> 03:16:17.415
Good.

03:16:17.439 --> 03:16:19.096
Councelor Davis, you have your finish

03:16:19.120 --> 03:16:20.295
your four minutes B2.

03:16:20.319 --> 03:16:21.656
Just just a question.

03:16:21.680 --> 03:16:22.616
Yes.

03:16:22.640 --> 03:16:25.496
I I was under the impression that we'd

03:16:25.520 --> 03:16:28.520
given this um DA to another

03:16:29.200 --> 03:16:30.136
was I

03:16:30.160 --> 03:16:33.160
council. Sorry. Yeah. I like the because

03:16:34.319 --> 03:16:37.096
of the fact that we were customers of

03:16:37.120 --> 03:16:40.120
the quarry. So obviously we hadn't then

03:16:40.479 --> 03:16:41.896
I I was wrong in that impression.

03:16:41.920 --> 03:16:43.335
Yes. So was I I was under the impression

03:16:43.359 --> 03:16:45.016
too of that.

03:16:45.040 --> 03:16:48.040
I cannot I don't know where you got that

03:16:48.080 --> 03:16:50.616
impression from. Um so I'm

03:16:50.640 --> 03:16:52.455
sorry that's how I thought it was come

03:16:52.479 --> 03:16:53.016
from

03:16:53.040 --> 03:16:56.040
but in the policy um we we're referring

03:16:57.200 --> 03:16:59.496
it a major application can be undertaken

03:16:59.520 --> 03:17:02.056
by another council or independent

03:17:02.080 --> 03:17:04.136
independent consultant. So we sought

03:17:04.160 --> 03:17:05.576
legal advice as our independent

03:17:05.600 --> 03:17:07.176
consultant to make sure it's followed up

03:17:07.200 --> 03:17:07.496
correctly.

03:17:07.520 --> 03:17:09.176
So you still went and got legal you

03:17:09.200 --> 03:17:11.096
still got independent advice on it.

03:17:11.120 --> 03:17:13.896
That's correct. Sorry, that's probably

03:17:13.920 --> 03:17:15.896
that's my fault there. Second question,

03:17:15.920 --> 03:17:18.375
when can we go into confidential?

03:17:18.399 --> 03:17:20.536
, so we just voted not to go into

03:17:20.560 --> 03:17:21.096
confidential.

03:17:21.120 --> 03:17:24.120
I know we So we can't do what we do. We

03:17:24.239 --> 03:17:27.239
need to go in confidential for

03:17:27.520 --> 03:17:28.295
legal advice.

03:17:28.319 --> 03:17:30.215
Yeah, there's legal advice in here that

03:17:30.239 --> 03:17:33.016
we would like to ask staff and so we're

03:17:33.040 --> 03:17:35.415
addressing this without being able to

03:17:35.439 --> 03:17:37.415
address

03:17:37.439 --> 03:17:39.576
staff. You That's the one you rang me.

03:17:39.600 --> 03:17:42.215
You read? Yeah, I know the legal advice.

03:17:42.239 --> 03:17:42.776
I'm a little

03:17:42.800 --> 03:17:45.496
sorry, we voted not to go into

03:17:45.520 --> 03:17:47.016
confidential for that legal advice, so

03:17:47.040 --> 03:17:48.696
we have to continue on.

03:17:48.720 --> 03:17:51.415
Councelor D, you have four minutes. 32.

03:17:51.439 --> 03:17:54.056
I'll start again.

03:17:54.080 --> 03:17:55.976
EA consent

03:17:56.000 --> 03:17:59.000
condition two and to modify condition

03:17:59.040 --> 03:18:00.696
two

03:18:00.720 --> 03:18:03.720
has ceased on the 1st of December.

03:18:04.880 --> 03:18:07.016
Point of order.

03:18:07.040 --> 03:18:07.255
Yes,

03:18:07.279 --> 03:18:09.335
I can do this all day. You want to keep

03:18:09.359 --> 03:18:11.255
your prompts to yourself.

03:18:11.279 --> 03:18:12.136
What's your point of order?

03:18:12.160 --> 03:18:14.776
Legal advice is clear.

03:18:14.800 --> 03:18:17.800
The wording of condition two is where it

03:18:19.840 --> 03:18:22.840
says you the council can I have to read

03:18:23.279 --> 03:18:26.279
it exactly but the actual condition two

03:18:26.560 --> 03:18:29.016
in comparison to the other cases of

03:18:29.040 --> 03:18:29.496
legal advice.

03:18:29.520 --> 03:18:31.896
If you ask the staff, can it be extended

03:18:31.920 --> 03:18:34.920
from after the 1st of December?

03:18:35.040 --> 03:18:36.215
Is that what you're trying to ask the

03:18:36.239 --> 03:18:36.696
question on?

03:18:36.720 --> 03:18:38.455
Yes, cuz I've read the legal case. Fine.

03:18:38.479 --> 03:18:39.656
I'll ask the question.

03:18:39.680 --> 03:18:40.616
We'll get that clarification.

03:18:40.640 --> 03:18:42.616
We'll get that clarification

03:18:42.640 --> 03:18:45.640
through you through you.

03:18:46.399 --> 03:18:48.455
Is it a different question is would

03:18:48.479 --> 03:18:50.375
would the situation have been different

03:18:50.399 --> 03:18:53.096
if this this was being discussed prior

03:18:53.120 --> 03:18:54.616
to one December?

03:18:54.640 --> 03:18:56.295
That's in the legal advice.

03:18:56.319 --> 03:18:58.056
I'm asking now.

03:18:58.080 --> 03:18:59.496
Sorry. If the recommendation will be

03:18:59.520 --> 03:19:00.936
different if this happened last month or

03:19:00.960 --> 03:19:03.960
the month before I I don't believe it

03:19:04.000 --> 03:19:06.375
will be any different to what is in the

03:19:06.399 --> 03:19:08.375
bill but I refer that to

03:19:08.399 --> 03:19:11.255
Can I clarify

03:19:11.279 --> 03:19:13.176
a month ago you're saying sorry so a

03:19:13.200 --> 03:19:14.936
month ago

03:19:14.960 --> 03:19:17.496
I cannot say because the decision wasn't

03:19:17.520 --> 03:19:20.056
made in the position but let's be clear

03:19:20.080 --> 03:19:22.136
that the recommendation for refusal in

03:19:22.160 --> 03:19:25.160
0.1 is saying it does not satisfy the

03:19:25.680 --> 03:19:28.295
test of sub substantially the same

03:19:28.319 --> 03:19:30.936
development under 4.55.

03:19:30.960 --> 03:19:33.176
So as such the position has been put

03:19:33.200 --> 03:19:36.200
forward to council today from staff is

03:19:36.720 --> 03:19:38.776
that it does not pass the judicial

03:19:38.800 --> 03:19:41.496
threshold to allow council the power to

03:19:41.520 --> 03:19:44.520
approve it and so hence that is the

03:19:44.640 --> 03:19:46.455
position we're putting forward in point

03:19:46.479 --> 03:19:49.479
one. So if in regards to extension and

03:19:49.680 --> 03:19:52.455
though that is not what the that

03:19:52.479 --> 03:19:55.016
that's not discussing. Thank you. Can I

03:19:55.040 --> 03:19:56.856
get another clarification through a

03:19:56.880 --> 03:19:58.375
conversation

03:19:58.399 --> 03:20:01.399
if John is the one of the main concerns

03:20:03.359 --> 03:20:06.359
that didn't meet the the um guidelines

03:20:07.359 --> 03:20:10.359
is the 40-year extension that was asked

03:20:10.399 --> 03:20:13.255
for in the application process.

03:20:13.279 --> 03:20:16.279
Um through you Mr. where I I bring to

03:20:16.640 --> 03:20:19.640
your attention in the report where there

03:20:20.000 --> 03:20:22.295
has been an assessment undertaken on

03:20:22.319 --> 03:20:24.215
page

03:20:24.239 --> 03:20:27.239
83 through to

03:20:28.640 --> 03:20:29.255
which

03:20:29.279 --> 03:20:32.279
86 in the report on the McQuary papers

03:20:34.479 --> 03:20:36.536
where council staff have undertaken an

03:20:36.560 --> 03:20:39.560
assessment of the application um under

03:20:40.640 --> 03:20:42.856
4.552

03:20:42.880 --> 03:20:45.016
in line with Candbury Bankstown versus

03:20:45.040 --> 03:20:47.415
realize architecture proprietary limited

03:20:47.439 --> 03:20:49.335
where we've done both a quantitative

03:20:49.359 --> 03:20:52.295
assessment and a qualitative assessment

03:20:52.319 --> 03:20:55.319
of whether it meets that that. So the

03:20:55.520 --> 03:20:57.335
criteria

03:20:57.359 --> 03:21:00.359
is is here of balancing the elements

03:21:01.520 --> 03:21:04.520
um critical element comparison and what

03:21:05.520 --> 03:21:08.056
that has concluded is it's not from the

03:21:08.080 --> 03:21:10.536
original development consent

03:21:10.560 --> 03:21:13.016
to the modification proposed is not

03:21:13.040 --> 03:21:15.496
substantially the same development.

03:21:15.520 --> 03:21:17.415
Yeah. So just one more question. Would

03:21:17.439 --> 03:21:19.415
that help counselor? Sorry.

03:21:19.439 --> 03:21:20.696
Please.

03:21:20.720 --> 03:21:23.720
Yeah. If we decide to defer this and you

03:21:25.279 --> 03:21:28.279
come back with a condition of consent,

03:21:28.479 --> 03:21:31.255
there will be subject to a a number of

03:21:31.279 --> 03:21:33.096
things.

03:21:33.120 --> 03:21:35.736
Okay. Let me can I clarify something

03:21:35.760 --> 03:21:38.760
here? Let me refer you to um council's

03:21:39.760 --> 03:21:41.096
procedure contrary to staff

03:21:41.120 --> 03:21:43.896
recommendations and I refer you all got

03:21:43.920 --> 03:21:46.920
a copy of you sent that in public

03:21:47.359 --> 03:21:50.359
um that where staff recommend refusal

03:21:50.960 --> 03:21:53.176
however council determines to approve

03:21:53.200 --> 03:21:54.056
y

03:21:54.080 --> 03:21:55.656
if there is a non-compliance with a

03:21:55.680 --> 03:21:58.375
prescriptive requirement the council has

03:21:58.399 --> 03:22:01.399
no alternative can either refuse the DA

03:22:01.760 --> 03:22:03.896
or defer the decision and instruct the

03:22:03.920 --> 03:22:05.816
applicant to amend their application to

03:22:05.840 --> 03:22:07.976
comply. So we've heard today the

03:22:08.000 --> 03:22:09.976
applicant

03:22:10.000 --> 03:22:12.455
didn't want to modify. So that but that

03:22:12.479 --> 03:22:15.479
is the procedure that council adopted in

03:22:15.520 --> 03:22:18.520
21st of March last year and the position

03:22:19.120 --> 03:22:21.576
that's been put forward to council is

03:22:21.600 --> 03:22:24.600
that the pro procedural requirement

03:22:24.640 --> 03:22:26.776
under 4.5

03:22:26.800 --> 03:22:28.136
the environmental planning assessment

03:22:28.160 --> 03:22:30.936
act and this is 4.55 but there's same

03:22:30.960 --> 03:22:33.816
provisions that um of the act that we

03:22:33.840 --> 03:22:36.840
need to consider is council does not

03:22:37.040 --> 03:22:40.040
have the power to approve

03:22:40.720 --> 03:22:43.176
approve approve

03:22:43.200 --> 03:22:45.576
the modification because it is not

03:22:45.600 --> 03:22:47.736
substantially the same development.

03:22:47.760 --> 03:22:50.215
Sorry. Sorry. So, so is it your

03:22:50.239 --> 03:22:53.239
contention then that if we reverse the

03:22:54.160 --> 03:22:55.176
resolution

03:22:55.200 --> 03:22:55.656
Mhm.

03:22:55.680 --> 03:22:57.816
to say approve that that would be

03:22:57.840 --> 03:22:59.816
unlawful.

03:22:59.840 --> 03:23:02.455
what my position I'm putting forward and

03:23:02.479 --> 03:23:05.479
sorry not just mine but staff

03:23:05.840 --> 03:23:07.576
is

03:23:07.600 --> 03:23:10.600
that sorry

03:23:11.279 --> 03:23:11.896
great music

03:23:11.920 --> 03:23:13.576
yeah sorry that's that's bit creepy is

03:23:13.600 --> 03:23:16.600
it um that

03:23:16.800 --> 03:23:19.800
in line with council's policy

03:23:20.160 --> 03:23:23.160
that your um it is that needs to be

03:23:23.840 --> 03:23:25.896
followed if it is a prescriptive

03:23:25.920 --> 03:23:27.496
requirement

03:23:27.520 --> 03:23:30.520
council has no other choice and to

03:23:30.640 --> 03:23:33.640
refuse the applicant the D.

03:23:33.680 --> 03:23:36.536
So it's Yeah. Sorry.

03:23:36.560 --> 03:23:38.616
Two things. Whilst we're clarifying

03:23:38.640 --> 03:23:40.455
things, it might be handy to go to the

03:23:40.479 --> 03:23:43.479
EPA8 section 455 and look at provisions.

03:23:45.120 --> 03:23:48.120
It my reading of it says such of the

03:23:48.960 --> 03:23:51.960
matters in 4.15 subsection one as may be

03:23:53.600 --> 03:23:55.656
appropriate. So not then not all of them

03:23:55.680 --> 03:23:58.455
apply. But if I would in I need a

03:23:58.479 --> 03:24:01.479
question. Can you read your and reflect

03:24:02.319 --> 03:24:04.936
upon the legal advice the answer summary

03:24:04.960 --> 03:24:06.856
advice the answer provided to question

03:24:06.880 --> 03:24:09.880
two? If Mr. Go gets who sub requested

03:24:10.319 --> 03:24:12.936
this advice could reflect upon the first

03:24:12.960 --> 03:24:15.960
sentence in the legal advice page three

03:24:16.239 --> 03:24:18.295
of the question.

03:24:18.319 --> 03:24:19.976
My question is can you reflect on that

03:24:20.000 --> 03:24:21.656
because the advice he's just provided

03:24:21.680 --> 03:24:24.375
immediately contradicts what this doc

03:24:24.399 --> 03:24:27.255
say.

03:24:27.279 --> 03:24:29.656
Next question.

03:24:29.680 --> 03:24:31.335
Yeah, I'm I was trying to get to the

03:24:31.359 --> 03:24:34.359
bottom of of the legal advice, but

03:24:35.439 --> 03:24:36.936
again, it's very awkward because we're

03:24:36.960 --> 03:24:37.736
not allowed to talk.

03:24:37.760 --> 03:24:40.455
Yes. So, please don't mention it.

03:24:40.479 --> 03:24:43.479
So, I just It's very simple question,

03:24:43.920 --> 03:24:46.920
right? Is it the staff's view?

03:24:48.720 --> 03:24:51.656
They've researched this, so I haven't.

03:24:51.680 --> 03:24:53.896
Is it the staff's view and advice to

03:24:53.920 --> 03:24:55.736
councilors

03:24:55.760 --> 03:24:58.616
that we cannot approve

03:24:58.640 --> 03:25:01.016
the extension

03:25:01.040 --> 03:25:04.040
because the time has already expired

03:25:09.359 --> 03:25:12.359
that that is not what the recommend

03:25:12.560 --> 03:25:15.560
refusal point one is actually saying.

03:25:15.600 --> 03:25:17.816
I'm not asking that. I'm asking if we

03:25:17.840 --> 03:25:20.536
were to

03:25:20.560 --> 03:25:23.415
have an alternate motion that said let's

03:25:23.439 --> 03:25:24.455
approve this.

03:25:24.479 --> 03:25:25.976
Yes.

03:25:26.000 --> 03:25:29.000
Can the can it be extended

03:25:29.600 --> 03:25:32.600
given that the time period has expired?

03:25:35.439 --> 03:25:38.136
What does the law not our policy what

03:25:38.160 --> 03:25:41.160
does our law what does the law say?

03:25:41.520 --> 03:25:44.215
So what we're saying as staff is that

03:25:44.239 --> 03:25:46.375
the law says we cannot do that because

03:25:46.399 --> 03:25:48.696
it's a modification and it's not

03:25:48.720 --> 03:25:50.455
substantially the same. I

03:25:50.479 --> 03:25:52.375
no matter which way you talk about doing

03:25:52.399 --> 03:25:52.696
it.

03:25:52.720 --> 03:25:55.720
Sorry. If it was substantially the same,

03:25:56.560 --> 03:25:58.696
could it be

03:25:58.720 --> 03:26:01.720
approved given that the time has lapsed

03:26:01.920 --> 03:26:04.536
or would a new DA have to come rather

03:26:04.560 --> 03:26:07.560
than extension DA?

03:26:08.479 --> 03:26:11.479
If through sir if

03:26:12.640 --> 03:26:14.696
council was satisfied that the

03:26:14.720 --> 03:26:17.255
development was substantially the same

03:26:17.279 --> 03:26:18.776
development

03:26:18.800 --> 03:26:21.255
council could determine to extend the

03:26:21.279 --> 03:26:24.279
time is the position being put forward.

03:26:24.399 --> 03:26:27.399
Thank you

03:26:27.760 --> 03:26:30.760
question. It is um is the applicant

03:26:32.640 --> 03:26:35.255
seeking to extend or increase the amount

03:26:35.279 --> 03:26:37.255
of rock they are seeking to extract

03:26:37.279 --> 03:26:39.576
because that would be germanine to the

03:26:39.600 --> 03:26:42.215
substantially the same test. We heard

03:26:42.239 --> 03:26:45.239
from the applicant that they are not

03:26:46.160 --> 03:26:49.160
through you Mr. Mayor. Um,

03:26:49.359 --> 03:26:52.359
we have emails from the applicant

03:26:52.560 --> 03:26:55.560
stating that they are looking to realign

03:26:56.399 --> 03:26:58.856
the western face which would then

03:26:58.880 --> 03:27:01.880
increase the capacity by 10,000 BCM.

03:27:03.359 --> 03:27:06.359
Is that is that in their application?

03:27:06.720 --> 03:27:08.215
They they've confirmed that they wanted

03:27:08.239 --> 03:27:09.415
that considered as part of the

03:27:09.439 --> 03:27:10.295
application.

03:27:10.319 --> 03:27:12.455
Is that in the application now or is

03:27:12.479 --> 03:27:14.616
that discussion? Because my answer

03:27:14.640 --> 03:27:15.976
I think I've just answered the question.

03:27:16.000 --> 03:27:18.616
as part of the application.

03:27:18.640 --> 03:27:19.816
Yes,

03:27:19.840 --> 03:27:21.016
counselor.

03:27:21.040 --> 03:27:21.576
Sorry.

03:27:21.600 --> 03:27:22.295
You're all right.

03:27:22.319 --> 03:27:23.576
It's somebody's livelihood.

03:27:23.600 --> 03:27:26.215
No, no, no, no. I understand.

03:27:26.239 --> 03:27:29.239
Would it be fair to say then

03:27:29.600 --> 03:27:31.896
if the timeline

03:27:31.920 --> 03:27:34.136
was shorter, there might be a chance

03:27:34.160 --> 03:27:36.776
that it would have been seen as just an

03:27:36.800 --> 03:27:39.800
extension and easier for the staff to

03:27:40.239 --> 03:27:43.239
approve? No, no,

03:27:43.359 --> 03:27:44.616
the short answer because

03:27:44.640 --> 03:27:45.976
hang on.

03:27:46.000 --> 03:27:49.000
Sorry, I'm askette first.

03:27:49.040 --> 03:27:51.896
Yeah, the opposite.

03:27:51.920 --> 03:27:53.096
Right. What? Oh,

03:27:53.120 --> 03:27:55.016
no. You're right. Who wants to answer

03:27:55.040 --> 03:27:55.656
that question?

03:27:55.680 --> 03:27:58.056
I'd like to direct it to Mr. Garget,

03:27:58.080 --> 03:28:00.856
please.

03:28:00.880 --> 03:28:03.880
So, and I'll take Mr. Gagget's advice.

03:28:04.000 --> 03:28:05.816
However, the grounds that we are putting

03:28:05.840 --> 03:28:07.496
forward for the decision is that it's

03:28:07.520 --> 03:28:10.520
not substantially the same. So

03:28:10.640 --> 03:28:13.496
whether the time frames

03:28:13.520 --> 03:28:16.056
um coincided or not is a different

03:28:16.080 --> 03:28:18.776
matter. So when you're asking whether

03:28:18.800 --> 03:28:21.496
having made this decision reli relied on

03:28:21.520 --> 03:28:24.056
those time frames, the answer to my view

03:28:24.080 --> 03:28:25.415
is no because the

03:28:25.439 --> 03:28:27.496
why I would like to ask Mr. Garet.

03:28:27.520 --> 03:28:30.375
I got a question that's sorry Mr.

03:28:30.399 --> 03:28:32.375
Rolling.

03:28:32.399 --> 03:28:34.696
So the question is if it was

03:28:34.720 --> 03:28:37.720
if if the time frame had not been 40

03:28:38.640 --> 03:28:41.415
years would the staff have considered

03:28:41.439 --> 03:28:44.439
this as an extension let's say it was 5

03:28:44.880 --> 03:28:46.056
years

03:28:46.080 --> 03:28:49.080
5 10 years it was seen as 40 years is

03:28:50.000 --> 03:28:53.000
generation and Mrs. Hton said that most

03:28:53.840 --> 03:28:55.656
of us will not be here

03:28:55.680 --> 03:28:58.056
in 40 years time I'm sorry to tell you

03:28:58.080 --> 03:29:00.536
all but

03:29:00.560 --> 03:29:02.375
so

03:29:02.399 --> 03:29:05.399
And now being a quarry expert, I've been

03:29:05.920 --> 03:29:08.056
told that

03:29:08.080 --> 03:29:10.776
it's possible to extract

03:29:10.800 --> 03:29:13.800
the remaining 80,000 within a 7 to 10

03:29:14.160 --> 03:29:16.136
year period.

03:29:16.160 --> 03:29:18.936
Now, I learned today a lot of it is

03:29:18.960 --> 03:29:21.816
determined by the demand. Sorry,

03:29:21.840 --> 03:29:23.335
can I hold up? I'll let him ask the

03:29:23.359 --> 03:29:24.696
question because you kind of get into

03:29:24.720 --> 03:29:26.616
debate.

03:29:26.640 --> 03:29:28.375
Council, sorry through you, Mr. Mayor.

03:29:28.399 --> 03:29:31.255
council. If a different time frame was

03:29:31.279 --> 03:29:34.279
put forward for the for the

03:29:35.600 --> 03:29:37.096
continuation,

03:29:37.120 --> 03:29:38.936
council would still need to go through a

03:29:38.960 --> 03:29:41.576
test and assess it in line with this

03:29:41.600 --> 03:29:44.600
criteria to determine substantial. I'm

03:29:44.800 --> 03:29:47.016
not prepared to say today whether that

03:29:47.040 --> 03:29:49.255
would satisfy that until I saw an

03:29:49.279 --> 03:29:51.335
application. So, I could not make that

03:29:51.359 --> 03:29:54.359
decision today. No. Um but we were we

03:29:55.359 --> 03:29:57.816
were just considering 40 years and

03:29:57.840 --> 03:30:00.056
that's that's the assessment that's been

03:30:00.080 --> 03:30:02.136
done.

03:30:02.160 --> 03:30:05.160
All right, moving on. Any question just

03:30:06.960 --> 03:30:08.856
I think we've got to discuss this.

03:30:08.880 --> 03:30:11.880
Somebody who's already going to still 14

03:30:12.720 --> 03:30:14.616
I've still got

03:30:14.640 --> 03:30:16.536
questions questions

03:30:16.560 --> 03:30:18.936
or can't they wait till after somebody's

03:30:18.960 --> 03:30:20.295
livelihood

03:30:20.319 --> 03:30:22.215
point of order? But there are no

03:30:22.239 --> 03:30:23.896
limitations on the number of questions

03:30:23.920 --> 03:30:26.056
that might

03:30:26.080 --> 03:30:27.415
clarifications are useful.

03:30:27.439 --> 03:30:29.255
Sorry, sorry, sorry, councilors. Thank

03:30:29.279 --> 03:30:30.776
you. There is no such thing as

03:30:30.800 --> 03:30:32.375
clarifications in the code of meeting

03:30:32.399 --> 03:30:34.295
practice. Just to make you very clear on

03:30:34.319 --> 03:30:36.056
that, council fail. So I don't actually

03:30:36.080 --> 03:30:37.496
have to take clarifications if I choose

03:30:37.520 --> 03:30:39.496
not to. There is questions in there and

03:30:39.520 --> 03:30:40.696
you can ask questions. There's no

03:30:40.720 --> 03:30:42.776
limited on questions. There is some

03:30:42.800 --> 03:30:45.736
order your tone is belittling of

03:30:45.760 --> 03:30:48.295
answering questions is to clarify

03:30:48.319 --> 03:30:50.856
matters. Yes, that is to clarify, but

03:30:50.880 --> 03:30:52.215
you cannot say I want to clarify

03:30:52.239 --> 03:30:53.736
something. You can ask a question and

03:30:53.760 --> 03:30:55.576
you need to ask that question very

03:30:55.600 --> 03:30:57.096
clearly and it's a question. It's not

03:30:57.120 --> 03:30:59.576
debating the question. Councelor Davis

03:30:59.600 --> 03:31:01.816
has still got 4 minutes and 14 seconds

03:31:01.840 --> 03:31:04.840
left on her debate for the motion. After

03:31:06.319 --> 03:31:07.736
she finishes, I will go to councelor

03:31:07.760 --> 03:31:10.136
Rose who has had his hand up. Councelor

03:31:10.160 --> 03:31:12.616
Davis,

03:31:12.640 --> 03:31:14.696
I am supporting the recommendation

03:31:14.720 --> 03:31:17.720
because just that first point, the

03:31:18.640 --> 03:31:20.856
modification does not meet the test of

03:31:20.880 --> 03:31:23.576
being substantially saying development

03:31:23.600 --> 03:31:26.536
and with that

03:31:26.560 --> 03:31:29.016
we cannot support this application

03:31:29.040 --> 03:31:30.856
because we can only look at the

03:31:30.880 --> 03:31:33.016
information that's in front of us. There

03:31:33.040 --> 03:31:34.776
has been discussion around could it be

03:31:34.800 --> 03:31:37.576
modified  as far as time frames etc.

03:31:37.600 --> 03:31:39.896
But that's not what is in front of us.

03:31:39.920 --> 03:31:42.696
What is in front of us is a modification

03:31:42.720 --> 03:31:45.335
of condition two that has expired on the

03:31:45.359 --> 03:31:48.359
1st of December for an extension of 40

03:31:48.479 --> 03:31:51.479
years with a further change in what the

03:31:52.960 --> 03:31:55.960
current  the the conditions that was

03:31:57.120 --> 03:32:00.120
set in 2000 25 years ago and legislation

03:32:02.479 --> 03:32:05.415
has changed significantly in 25 years.

03:32:05.439 --> 03:32:07.736
So it needs to be assessed under the

03:32:07.760 --> 03:32:10.760
current changes to the EPA.

03:32:11.359 --> 03:32:13.656
Point of order

03:32:13.680 --> 03:32:16.295
a continuing or existing use does not

03:32:16.319 --> 03:32:18.056
have to be assessed under the current

03:32:18.080 --> 03:32:18.776
legislation.

03:32:18.800 --> 03:32:21.176
Point of order. Sit down. Point of

03:32:21.200 --> 03:32:24.200
order. It's not a point of order.

03:32:24.239 --> 03:32:27.239
Well, then I will raise a dissent

03:32:27.279 --> 03:32:30.279
because you are wrong at law.

03:32:30.479 --> 03:32:33.255
You're not a lawyer. So please sit down.

03:32:33.279 --> 03:32:36.056
You can raise the descent if you want

03:32:36.080 --> 03:32:37.096
and then we'll move on.

03:32:37.120 --> 03:32:38.856
I'll raise a motion of descent against

03:32:38.880 --> 03:32:39.896
your ruling.

03:32:39.920 --> 03:32:41.576
Let the counselor finish her. No,

03:32:41.600 --> 03:32:43.576
he's raised he's raised sorry councelor.

03:32:43.600 --> 03:32:45.415
He's raised an order to descent but it's

03:32:45.439 --> 03:32:46.856
not a point of order because I cannot

03:32:46.880 --> 03:32:48.936
see anywhere in the just in the code of

03:32:48.960 --> 03:32:49.896
meeting practice where the point of

03:32:49.920 --> 03:32:51.656
order is. Councelor, what was your

03:32:51.680 --> 03:32:53.016
descent?

03:32:53.040 --> 03:32:54.056
5 minutes.

03:32:54.080 --> 03:32:56.056
No, what is your descent?

03:32:56.080 --> 03:32:57.176
I need a motion.

03:32:57.200 --> 03:32:58.776
My motion of descent is against your

03:32:58.800 --> 03:33:00.375
ruling that it's not a point of order.

03:33:00.399 --> 03:33:02.856
You have mischaracterized an existing.

03:33:02.880 --> 03:33:05.576
Thank you. Sorry, councelor. I need the

03:33:05.600 --> 03:33:07.656
wording and then if I get a second, you

03:33:07.680 --> 03:33:08.215
can debate it.

03:33:08.239 --> 03:33:09.656
The Mayor is wrong at law.

03:33:09.680 --> 03:33:11.176
Thank you.

03:33:11.200 --> 03:33:13.656
Do I have a second?

03:33:13.680 --> 03:33:14.936
No second, please.

03:33:14.960 --> 03:33:16.616
I'm sorry you haven't given that time.

03:33:16.640 --> 03:33:19.176
I'm sure someone seconded.

03:33:19.200 --> 03:33:22.200
Seriously,

03:33:22.560 --> 03:33:24.136
I'm not a lawyer. We've never determined

03:33:24.160 --> 03:33:25.576
I'm a lawyer. You may talk for a few

03:33:25.600 --> 03:33:26.375
five minutes.

03:33:26.399 --> 03:33:29.335
Thank you.

03:33:29.359 --> 03:33:32.215
I bring this motion of dissent

03:33:32.239 --> 03:33:35.176
and I think it's important and I don't

03:33:35.200 --> 03:33:38.200
actually care whether counselors think

03:33:38.239 --> 03:33:39.816
that this is wrong, right? Or

03:33:39.840 --> 03:33:41.976
what is your point of Sorry. Point of

03:33:42.000 --> 03:33:45.000
order. Point of order.

03:33:45.439 --> 03:33:46.776
You need to actually talk about the

03:33:46.800 --> 03:33:47.415
descent.

03:33:47.439 --> 03:33:49.576
I'm going to No, no, no, no. You need to

03:33:49.600 --> 03:33:51.496
actually interruption. ,

03:33:51.520 --> 03:33:53.736
sorry. You need to talk on your descent.

03:33:53.760 --> 03:33:54.616
I will talk on my descent.

03:33:54.640 --> 03:33:55.496
Yeah, we'll talk on it.

03:33:55.520 --> 03:33:57.896
The issue was made. A claim was made by

03:33:57.920 --> 03:34:00.696
councelor Davis in her debate that you

03:34:00.720 --> 03:34:03.720
must assess developments because the

03:34:04.239 --> 03:34:06.856
laws have changed. Existing and

03:34:06.880 --> 03:34:09.880
continuous use properties do not have to

03:34:10.160 --> 03:34:12.215
be assessed against new laws. Classic

03:34:12.239 --> 03:34:13.896
example is Flynn's autorecorders.

03:34:13.920 --> 03:34:15.576
Flynn's autorecorders was started in

03:34:15.600 --> 03:34:18.600
1950 predating.

03:34:18.720 --> 03:34:20.455
You cannot continue on. You're talking

03:34:20.479 --> 03:34:21.176
about your descent.

03:34:21.200 --> 03:34:23.255
I'm making an effort to explain the

03:34:23.279 --> 03:34:25.656
point of law, Mr. Mayor. That is not the

03:34:25.680 --> 03:34:26.776
motion of dissent.

03:34:26.800 --> 03:34:29.576
I'm saying I'm giving you reason.

03:34:29.600 --> 03:34:31.816
Sorry. Continue. You stick to the motion

03:34:31.840 --> 03:34:32.536
of disscent.

03:34:32.560 --> 03:34:35.016
I own a property at Nimitabel which is a

03:34:35.040 --> 03:34:36.295
nothing to do with what we're talking

03:34:36.319 --> 03:34:37.415
about

03:34:37.439 --> 03:34:38.936
use.

03:34:38.960 --> 03:34:40.776
Cannot be assessed against current

03:34:40.800 --> 03:34:42.375
planning standards because it is a

03:34:42.399 --> 03:34:43.496
continent.

03:34:43.520 --> 03:34:45.176
This is not relevant to a motion of

03:34:45.200 --> 03:34:45.496
descent.

03:34:45.520 --> 03:34:47.896
I agree.

03:34:47.920 --> 03:34:49.656
Continue. Stick to the descent.

03:34:49.680 --> 03:34:51.656
Motion of descent is that you are wrong

03:34:51.680 --> 03:34:53.736
at law. You might actually seek

03:34:53.760 --> 03:34:56.760
clarification from Mr. Go gets. I'm

03:34:56.880 --> 03:34:59.176
telling you that properties with

03:34:59.200 --> 03:35:01.656
existing and continuing use rights do

03:35:01.680 --> 03:35:03.176
not

03:35:03.200 --> 03:35:04.215
about the

03:35:04.239 --> 03:35:06.616
just let him finish.

03:35:06.640 --> 03:35:09.640
He thinks you like

03:35:10.080 --> 03:35:11.656
he's not a lawyer. It's fine. Continue.

03:35:11.680 --> 03:35:14.680
Councelor favor.

03:35:15.600 --> 03:35:17.096
You don't have to be a lawyer to go to

03:35:17.120 --> 03:35:20.120
court. M. Can I ask a question of this?

03:35:20.239 --> 03:35:21.016
Sorry. Counselor,

03:35:21.040 --> 03:35:23.016
not court. Councilors please.

03:35:23.040 --> 03:35:25.176
We ask the question of the staff. Mr. G

03:35:25.200 --> 03:35:26.295
might assist in this particular.

03:35:26.319 --> 03:35:28.056
You're talking about the descent. Yes.

03:35:28.080 --> 03:35:30.215
Debate that. I will then put my two

03:35:30.239 --> 03:35:31.736
cents on it and then we'll put it to

03:35:31.760 --> 03:35:33.016
thing. If you're not asking questions,

03:35:33.040 --> 03:35:34.776
you're debating.

03:35:34.800 --> 03:35:36.616
Debate.

03:35:36.640 --> 03:35:38.536
I'd ask you to restrain your tone.

03:35:38.560 --> 03:35:39.896
I'll ask you to continue your debate.

03:35:39.920 --> 03:35:41.415
You got three minutes left counselor. Or

03:35:41.439 --> 03:35:43.255
if you're not, I'll put my two cents in

03:35:43.279 --> 03:35:46.279
it and then we'll move on.

03:35:46.319 --> 03:35:47.896
I'm actually about to raise an act of

03:35:47.920 --> 03:35:49.736
disorder against you, chair, because you

03:35:49.760 --> 03:35:51.976
are restraining your tone. You are

03:35:52.000 --> 03:35:55.000
belating and belittling me. I tried to

03:35:55.200 --> 03:35:57.496
raise my disorder against councelor

03:35:57.520 --> 03:35:59.976
Sailor because he is disrupting this

03:36:00.000 --> 03:36:03.000
meeting and continuing to stop debate

03:36:04.160 --> 03:36:06.936
and allowing the public for a start to

03:36:06.960 --> 03:36:09.496
actually get on with their day and for

03:36:09.520 --> 03:36:11.736
us to make decisions. Second that.

03:36:11.760 --> 03:36:13.736
I'd have to withdraw my

03:36:13.760 --> 03:36:14.056
what?

03:36:14.080 --> 03:36:16.455
Second if this continues. I'm sorry, but

03:36:16.479 --> 03:36:18.536
but that I'd have to do that. It's going

03:36:18.560 --> 03:36:21.560
nowhere.

03:36:21.760 --> 03:36:23.096
Council Elliot with drawn. Do I have a

03:36:23.120 --> 03:36:26.120
second for councelor  Baylor's Bruce

03:36:26.720 --> 03:36:28.616
is  descent.

03:36:28.640 --> 03:36:30.696
Hang on. Sorry.

03:36:30.720 --> 03:36:32.776
Oh, you're a bit confused.

03:36:32.800 --> 03:36:33.976
So am I actually to be honest with you

03:36:34.000 --> 03:36:36.696
at this point in time.

03:36:36.720 --> 03:36:38.776
Start again. Let the council finish over

03:36:38.800 --> 03:36:40.696
5 minutes and then we can go to the next

03:36:40.720 --> 03:36:42.936
council. I think thanks councelor could

03:36:42.960 --> 03:36:43.896
speak please

03:36:43.920 --> 03:36:45.096
you can ask a question.

03:36:45.120 --> 03:36:48.120
So um as I understood it and I'm kind of

03:36:48.399 --> 03:36:51.399
struggling to follow but

03:36:51.439 --> 03:36:54.056
um councelor fail raised the point of

03:36:54.080 --> 03:36:57.080
order. You ruled on it. You disagree

03:36:57.760 --> 03:37:00.760
without having a a a motion of

03:37:02.000 --> 03:37:04.295
disent

03:37:04.319 --> 03:37:05.976
but yes. So he probably shouldn't refer

03:37:06.000 --> 03:37:08.295
to it as council of failless descent but

03:37:08.319 --> 03:37:11.255
that's in the middle of him giving a

03:37:11.279 --> 03:37:14.279
speech I think he then proceeded I think

03:37:15.279 --> 03:37:18.215
to raise a motion of

03:37:18.239 --> 03:37:20.295
um some what's the word active

03:37:20.319 --> 03:37:22.696
disorder and that sort

03:37:22.720 --> 03:37:24.375
and so is councelor Davis

03:37:24.399 --> 03:37:26.455
and then whilst he was trying to say

03:37:26.479 --> 03:37:28.455
that another counselor jumped in and did

03:37:28.479 --> 03:37:30.616
the same thing and then another

03:37:30.640 --> 03:37:31.976
counselor said oh well I'm going to

03:37:32.000 --> 03:37:35.000
withdraw my support for some other

03:37:35.120 --> 03:37:36.136
earlier motion

03:37:36.160 --> 03:37:37.255
which is

03:37:37.279 --> 03:37:39.656
I don't think you can just

03:37:39.680 --> 03:37:41.415
ignore everything that happened and then

03:37:41.439 --> 03:37:43.976
go back to the original motion and you

03:37:44.000 --> 03:37:44.455
withdrew it.

03:37:44.479 --> 03:37:45.816
I if you actually can read the board it

03:37:45.840 --> 03:37:46.856
actually it's got it written on there

03:37:46.880 --> 03:37:48.776
and I'm doing one thing at a time.

03:37:48.800 --> 03:37:50.696
So let me do one thing at a time. Thanks

03:37:50.720 --> 03:37:53.656
Council  Williamson.  Council Elliot

03:37:53.680 --> 03:37:55.335
has withdrawn. So the descent is now Do

03:37:55.359 --> 03:37:58.056
I have a second for the descent?

03:37:58.080 --> 03:38:00.295
The descent is lapsed. Now we're moving

03:38:00.319 --> 03:38:02.536
on to councelor's raise of act of

03:38:02.560 --> 03:38:04.936
disorder against the man. Do I have a

03:38:04.960 --> 03:38:07.576
seconder for that?

03:38:07.600 --> 03:38:09.736
That is lapsed. Now we're raising on

03:38:09.760 --> 03:38:12.295
councelor Davis's raising acts act of

03:38:12.319 --> 03:38:15.319
disorder against councelor.

03:38:15.520 --> 03:38:18.520
Do I have a second for that?

03:38:21.439 --> 03:38:23.176
I really want to continue. Yes.

03:38:23.200 --> 03:38:25.736
Yes. Good. Now finish your presentation.

03:38:25.760 --> 03:38:27.335
Are you are you accepting? Are you doing

03:38:27.359 --> 03:38:27.816
that?

03:38:27.840 --> 03:38:30.840
Yes, I am because very clear. ,

03:38:30.960 --> 03:38:32.616
sorry, I've got a second up.

03:38:32.640 --> 03:38:35.640
Y

03:38:36.640 --> 03:38:38.616
councelor D, can I just

03:38:38.640 --> 03:38:39.896
I need to clarify. I think

03:38:39.920 --> 03:38:41.816
I just can I just intervene here for a

03:38:41.840 --> 03:38:43.736
moment because we're just looking we're

03:38:43.760 --> 03:38:44.056
looking

03:38:44.080 --> 03:38:45.096
we're looking terrible at the moment.

03:38:45.120 --> 03:38:48.056
We're looking bad. I I we just I think

03:38:48.080 --> 03:38:49.656
councelor Fell can make his points

03:38:49.680 --> 03:38:52.616
again. He's got he's got a point to make

03:38:52.640 --> 03:38:54.696
later. We just need to leave let let

03:38:54.720 --> 03:38:57.016
councelor Davis finish his speech. Let's

03:38:57.040 --> 03:38:59.096
not worry about this this material and

03:38:59.120 --> 03:39:01.496
and council. Look, you're not doing

03:39:01.520 --> 03:39:02.776
something other time

03:39:02.800 --> 03:39:05.096
any you're not doing any benefit in

03:39:05.120 --> 03:39:06.936
this. It's we just need to try and stick

03:39:06.960 --> 03:39:09.496
to the facts work work through the story

03:39:09.520 --> 03:39:10.776
for and against the motion because we've

03:39:10.800 --> 03:39:12.536
only had we've only had a speaker for

03:39:12.560 --> 03:39:15.560
the motion against the motion and now

03:39:15.680 --> 03:39:17.415
speaker for the motion. So I think it's

03:39:17.439 --> 03:39:19.415
very important to try and put these

03:39:19.439 --> 03:39:21.335
materials aside and just let let's get

03:39:21.359 --> 03:39:24.359
on with things. If if councelor Davis

03:39:25.040 --> 03:39:27.896
can have her full five minutes and start

03:39:27.920 --> 03:39:29.816
from the beginning so we can actually

03:39:29.840 --> 03:39:31.976
hear what she is debating.

03:39:32.000 --> 03:39:34.056
She had three minutes.

03:39:34.080 --> 03:39:34.536
Fine.

03:39:34.560 --> 03:39:37.560
No point of all through the but  let's

03:39:38.080 --> 03:39:39.176
see how that goes.

03:39:39.200 --> 03:39:41.255
Davis, you happy with that?

03:39:41.279 --> 03:39:43.496
Look, I'm happy to do it in the time I

03:39:43.520 --> 03:39:45.335
have left. I just don't want to be

03:39:45.359 --> 03:39:48.359
interrupted every 30 seconds. It's

03:39:48.560 --> 03:39:50.936
really really disrespectful when it

03:39:50.960 --> 03:39:53.496
doesn't happen to a

03:39:53.520 --> 03:39:55.335
All right, I'll give you three three

03:39:55.359 --> 03:39:58.359
minutes.

03:39:58.880 --> 03:40:01.880
So I support the recommendation. Mr.

03:40:02.239 --> 03:40:05.016
Garget has explained very well in the

03:40:05.040 --> 03:40:08.040
questions why we should support this

03:40:08.239 --> 03:40:10.536
recommendation.

03:40:10.560 --> 03:40:13.560
I am very mindful of the fact that the

03:40:14.239 --> 03:40:16.295
current situation with the quarry may

03:40:16.319 --> 03:40:19.319
lead to job loss losses. However, we are

03:40:20.560 --> 03:40:23.560
only here to assess what's in front of

03:40:23.600 --> 03:40:26.600
us and in front of us is a a

03:40:27.120 --> 03:40:28.616
recommendation

03:40:28.640 --> 03:40:31.640
not to  not to approve the the

03:40:34.160 --> 03:40:35.736
continuation of the operation of the

03:40:35.760 --> 03:40:38.760
quarry. um for the following reason and

03:40:40.720 --> 03:40:43.720
in my view  I will be supporting that

03:40:44.080 --> 03:40:47.016
recommendation because it actually has

03:40:47.040 --> 03:40:49.335
been assessed by the staff. Mr. Garget

03:40:49.359 --> 03:40:52.359
has explained why and the proponents can

03:40:53.439 --> 03:40:56.439
put in a new application and I would

03:40:56.960 --> 03:40:59.016
recommend that they do that. Thank you.

03:40:59.040 --> 03:41:00.455
Thank you. Do I ask

03:41:00.479 --> 03:41:01.176
question?

03:41:01.200 --> 03:41:03.176
Question councelor Baylor. Yes.

03:41:03.200 --> 03:41:06.200
First question. Um,

03:41:06.239 --> 03:41:09.176
Mr. Gaggets, can they can the proponents

03:41:09.200 --> 03:41:11.415
put in a new application? It would

03:41:11.439 --> 03:41:13.255
therefore be subject to the new DA and

03:41:13.279 --> 03:41:15.335
it's not a permissible use in the new

03:41:15.359 --> 03:41:18.359
the new zoning. Is that correct?

03:41:20.319 --> 03:41:23.319
, a a new application for what?

03:41:24.880 --> 03:41:26.215
If the proponents put in a new

03:41:26.239 --> 03:41:28.616
application to extract the remaining

03:41:28.640 --> 03:41:30.536
rock. Yes. And extractive industry is

03:41:30.560 --> 03:41:32.455
not permissible in the new zone as I

03:41:32.479 --> 03:41:35.479
understand it.

03:41:38.640 --> 03:41:39.816
Sorry, I'm just going to get the

03:41:39.840 --> 03:41:42.840
relevant page for you there. Um, on page

03:41:44.080 --> 03:41:47.080
93 of the report, it's um it's stating

03:41:49.840 --> 03:41:52.536
the proposed the

03:41:52.560 --> 03:41:54.696
 extractive injury is not permissible

03:41:54.720 --> 03:41:57.720
in that zone of C3.

03:41:59.359 --> 03:42:00.856
Sorry, where's that?

03:42:00.880 --> 03:42:01.896
93.

03:42:01.920 --> 03:42:04.920
The on page 93, there's an extract of

03:42:05.279 --> 03:42:07.335
the land use table.

03:42:07.359 --> 03:42:08.536
And yeah,

03:42:08.560 --> 03:42:10.696
it's saying that extractive industries

03:42:10.720 --> 03:42:12.536
are not specified in section 3 permitted

03:42:12.560 --> 03:42:14.536
with consent. Section 4 prohibits any

03:42:14.560 --> 03:42:16.056
other development not specified in two

03:42:16.080 --> 03:42:17.736
or three. Therefore, extractive

03:42:17.760 --> 03:42:19.255
industries are not a permissible land

03:42:19.279 --> 03:42:21.656
use within zone C3, environmental

03:42:21.680 --> 03:42:22.536
management.

03:42:22.560 --> 03:42:25.335
Thank you. Do I have someone speaking

03:42:25.359 --> 03:42:27.896
against the recommend? Councelor Rose.

03:42:27.920 --> 03:42:28.375
Um,

03:42:28.399 --> 03:42:29.096
five minutes.

03:42:29.120 --> 03:42:31.656
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Look, um, this

03:42:31.680 --> 03:42:34.136
this is a complex problem here that

03:42:34.160 --> 03:42:36.455
we've got. It's not it's not beyond our

03:42:36.479 --> 03:42:39.176
ability to solve this. This really isn't

03:42:39.200 --> 03:42:41.255
about whether people like worries or

03:42:41.279 --> 03:42:44.279
not. The real question really is whether

03:42:45.760 --> 03:42:47.816
we're going to endorse a refusal in

03:42:47.840 --> 03:42:49.896
circumstances that we find ourselves in.

03:42:49.920 --> 03:42:52.455
And I I believe that council has not

03:42:52.479 --> 03:42:54.856
been I wouldn't like the word to use the

03:42:54.880 --> 03:42:57.255
word a fault but that council hasn't

03:42:57.279 --> 03:42:58.536
been judicious in the way we've

03:42:58.560 --> 03:43:00.936
approached this and in fact I've been in

03:43:00.960 --> 03:43:03.255
touch at various times saying have we

03:43:03.279 --> 03:43:04.856
got a legal liability if we don't do

03:43:04.880 --> 03:43:06.455
something before the first of of

03:43:06.479 --> 03:43:08.936
December. So I was never able to get an

03:43:08.960 --> 03:43:10.375
answer to that question but I am

03:43:10.399 --> 03:43:13.255
concerned about it. We we do have

03:43:13.279 --> 03:43:15.175
confidential legal advice which makes it

03:43:15.199 --> 03:43:17.976
clear that there are unresolved legal is

03:43:18.000 --> 03:43:20.696
issues to be to be dealt with and I

03:43:20.720 --> 03:43:22.295
don't believe this substantially the

03:43:22.319 --> 03:43:24.776
same development. If you read I spent 3

03:43:24.800 --> 03:43:26.776
hours reading the legal advice searching

03:43:26.800 --> 03:43:29.255
up some material and going through it

03:43:29.279 --> 03:43:31.816
over the weekend and it's very clear if

03:43:31.840 --> 03:43:34.840
you read that it's by no means certain

03:43:34.960 --> 03:43:36.375
that the substantially the same

03:43:36.399 --> 03:43:38.616
development is is clear. So I don't

03:43:38.640 --> 03:43:40.295
think I think we've been given we've

03:43:40.319 --> 03:43:43.096
been given advice u today that I don't

03:43:43.120 --> 03:43:44.616
think is correct in terms of the legal

03:43:44.640 --> 03:43:47.335
advice. So in terms of the story with

03:43:47.359 --> 03:43:49.016
this going before the London environment

03:43:49.040 --> 03:43:51.816
court I don't think that we should um

03:43:51.840 --> 03:43:54.295
reject this application. I think it's in

03:43:54.319 --> 03:43:56.696
the rateayers's interest to indicate

03:43:56.720 --> 03:43:58.856
that we support the continu continuity

03:43:58.880 --> 03:44:00.856
of this long-standing

03:44:00.880 --> 03:44:03.736
 proposal here and quarry subject to

03:44:03.760 --> 03:44:05.896
strengthen conditions on things like

03:44:05.920 --> 03:44:08.616
deter dust, noise, visual screening and

03:44:08.640 --> 03:44:11.640
review periods. And we have to remember

03:44:11.920 --> 03:44:13.736
this isn't a new isn't a new quarry.

03:44:13.760 --> 03:44:16.696
It's it's operated for 50 years. Um it's

03:44:16.720 --> 03:44:18.215
been a lawful development and it's been

03:44:18.239 --> 03:44:19.816
a significant development for our

03:44:19.840 --> 03:44:21.736
community as well.

03:44:21.760 --> 03:44:24.760
So the officer identifies issues but

03:44:25.680 --> 03:44:28.536
they're not  ongoing things that we

03:44:28.560 --> 03:44:30.215
need to to actually have these as

03:44:30.239 --> 03:44:32.696
inevitabilities. The quarry does provide

03:44:32.720 --> 03:44:35.175
a clear public benefit. I think that's

03:44:35.199 --> 03:44:36.776
one of the things that's been ignored

03:44:36.800 --> 03:44:39.800
and I think that Miss McMman has has

03:44:40.000 --> 03:44:41.576
shown very clearly that the public

03:44:41.600 --> 03:44:43.736
benefit is significant. Many

03:44:43.760 --> 03:44:45.896
environmental matters are are neutral.

03:44:45.920 --> 03:44:48.455
The visual impacts are largely existing

03:44:48.479 --> 03:44:50.536
and familiar. In fact, I've driven up

03:44:50.560 --> 03:44:52.936
that road a lot before I realized when

03:44:52.960 --> 03:44:54.295
councelor Elliot took me in to have a

03:44:54.319 --> 03:44:55.496
look at it. I hadn't realized there was

03:44:55.520 --> 03:44:58.520
a quarry there. Um, so I think those

03:44:59.040 --> 03:45:01.175
those situations point to not refusal.

03:45:01.199 --> 03:45:03.255
They point to management. The

03:45:03.279 --> 03:45:04.936
substantially the same question I think

03:45:04.960 --> 03:45:07.736
is really significant because councils

03:45:07.760 --> 03:45:09.896
have have received this confidential

03:45:09.920 --> 03:45:11.736
legal advice and while I won't disclose

03:45:11.760 --> 03:45:14.696
it one thing is clear the question which

03:45:14.720 --> 03:45:16.616
makes the modification substantially the

03:45:16.640 --> 03:45:19.640
same development or not is not black and

03:45:20.319 --> 03:45:21.976
white and there are differences in case

03:45:22.000 --> 03:45:24.936
law that we that were cited. So it turns

03:45:24.960 --> 03:45:27.576
on on interpretation.

03:45:27.600 --> 03:45:30.600
It certainly um turns on this the

03:45:30.720 --> 03:45:32.776
situation of the length of the extension

03:45:32.800 --> 03:45:35.175
which I think everyone would agree was

03:45:35.199 --> 03:45:37.976
unfortunate because that 40y year or so

03:45:38.000 --> 03:45:40.215
extension everyone can agree is not

03:45:40.239 --> 03:45:42.776
appropriate but I think the issue in

03:45:42.800 --> 03:45:45.096
terms of what we can do is we can limit

03:45:45.120 --> 03:45:47.896
the degree of the extension and I do

03:45:47.920 --> 03:45:50.455
think refusal carries serious legal risk

03:45:50.479 --> 03:45:53.175
for us. The matter as far as I know is

03:45:53.199 --> 03:45:55.576
before the land and environment court if

03:45:55.600 --> 03:45:58.600
we endorse outright refusal. We escalate

03:45:58.800 --> 03:46:01.255
the dis the the dispute. We expose

03:46:01.279 --> 03:46:02.936
ourselves to arguments about delay and

03:46:02.960 --> 03:46:05.496
procedural fairness. And it's very clear

03:46:05.520 --> 03:46:06.776
 that we've heard today there have

03:46:06.800 --> 03:46:08.696
been significant delays and I don't I

03:46:08.720 --> 03:46:11.496
don't minimize the workload but but

03:46:11.520 --> 03:46:13.576
basically the council had an obligation

03:46:13.600 --> 03:46:15.576
to review this before the 1st of

03:46:15.600 --> 03:46:17.816
December. We never got the opportunity.

03:46:17.840 --> 03:46:19.576
we risk losing control of the outcome

03:46:19.600 --> 03:46:22.136
and we risk significant legal costs. So

03:46:22.160 --> 03:46:24.136
that's not good governance. I do think

03:46:24.160 --> 03:46:25.896
that at this stage a more careful

03:46:25.920 --> 03:46:28.056
approach which is really declining to

03:46:28.080 --> 03:46:31.080
refuse at this stage and looking for

03:46:31.920 --> 03:46:34.920
some urgent engagement with a shorter

03:46:35.520 --> 03:46:37.816
and reviewable continu continuation

03:46:37.840 --> 03:46:39.335
keeps the council in a much sounder

03:46:39.359 --> 03:46:42.359
position. So I think that we need to

03:46:42.640 --> 03:46:44.776
reject the refusal of this and I think

03:46:44.800 --> 03:46:47.175
we need to to look at  an endorsement

03:46:47.199 --> 03:46:50.199
of a of of ongoing  interaction

03:46:50.399 --> 03:46:52.696
between the council and the and the DA

03:46:52.720 --> 03:46:54.696
proponent. I think it's a better way

03:46:54.720 --> 03:46:56.776
forward. It manages the risk that I

03:46:56.800 --> 03:46:59.576
think we face if we if we put this

03:46:59.600 --> 03:47:02.536
forward because there's no doubt if you

03:47:02.560 --> 03:47:05.560
read in depth the legal advice that that

03:47:05.920 --> 03:47:07.656
particular phrase which I think is the

03:47:07.680 --> 03:47:09.816
key thing substantially the same

03:47:09.840 --> 03:47:12.840
development has got a lot of legal

03:47:13.199 --> 03:47:15.496
um gray matter about it and so I think

03:47:15.520 --> 03:47:17.656
that I don't think it can be as simply

03:47:17.680 --> 03:47:18.936
said well it's not substantially the

03:47:18.960 --> 03:47:21.096
same development that's it no the test

03:47:21.120 --> 03:47:23.016
is quite complicated and I think there

03:47:23.040 --> 03:47:25.175
are arguments for it but I don't want to

03:47:25.199 --> 03:47:26.616
see us in the land and environment court

03:47:26.640 --> 03:47:27.656
because I don't think it's going to do

03:47:27.680 --> 03:47:29.896
us any good. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Thank

03:47:29.920 --> 03:47:31.335
you.

03:47:31.359 --> 03:47:32.856
Just a quick question. Yes.

03:47:32.880 --> 03:47:35.175
Did council Rose say that this there's

03:47:35.199 --> 03:47:36.536
currently something in the land and

03:47:36.560 --> 03:47:38.136
environment court or did I miss hear?

03:47:38.160 --> 03:47:40.936
No, I as far as I was informed that

03:47:40.960 --> 03:47:42.136
something gone to the land and

03:47:42.160 --> 03:47:43.576
environment court or something going to

03:47:43.600 --> 03:47:44.056
the land

03:47:44.080 --> 03:47:45.816
in relation to this particular

03:47:45.840 --> 03:47:47.896
That's what I I've understood. Maybe it

03:47:47.920 --> 03:47:49.096
may be wrong, but that's what I

03:47:49.120 --> 03:47:50.295
understood.

03:47:50.319 --> 03:47:52.295
We were informed by

03:47:52.319 --> 03:47:55.319
Yes. I thought we would

03:47:58.479 --> 03:48:00.776
get sent.

03:48:00.800 --> 03:48:02.056
We'll have the staff answer that. Thank

03:48:02.080 --> 03:48:03.175
you.

03:48:03.199 --> 03:48:05.896
Um, currently there's proceedings lodged

03:48:05.920 --> 03:48:07.576
in the land environment court for a

03:48:07.600 --> 03:48:10.600
deemed refusal or the application.

03:48:12.479 --> 03:48:15.479
Oh, what is it?

03:48:16.239 --> 03:48:18.536
What does that mean?

03:48:18.560 --> 03:48:19.896
What does that mean?

03:48:19.920 --> 03:48:22.920
That Sorry. Well, that's fine. Sorry,

03:48:23.199 --> 03:48:26.199
sorry. Um the that the

03:48:27.439 --> 03:48:28.936
um

03:48:28.960 --> 03:48:31.896
the owners have actually told what yeah

03:48:31.920 --> 03:48:34.056
the owners take um lodged papers at land

03:48:34.080 --> 03:48:36.616
environment court um because the

03:48:36.640 --> 03:48:38.136
application wasn't determined with the

03:48:38.160 --> 03:48:39.976
period of time it's deemed refused and

03:48:40.000 --> 03:48:41.496
they've lodged those papers with the

03:48:41.520 --> 03:48:44.295
court. So um

03:48:44.319 --> 03:48:46.295
so and that's still that's still the

03:48:46.319 --> 03:48:47.656
current situation from what I

03:48:47.680 --> 03:48:49.656
understand.

03:48:49.680 --> 03:48:51.656
Thank you. C have you got a question? I

03:48:51.680 --> 03:48:54.680
I do. If the DA is  approved, would

03:48:56.800 --> 03:48:59.415
that defeat the matter in the land and

03:48:59.439 --> 03:49:01.896
environment court or um would it

03:49:01.920 --> 03:49:04.776
therefore render it negatory and they'd

03:49:04.800 --> 03:49:07.800
have to withdraw it?

03:49:09.279 --> 03:49:12.056
If

03:49:12.080 --> 03:49:14.696
if the application through Miss Mayor is

03:49:14.720 --> 03:49:17.175
is approved, well, there is no deemed

03:49:17.199 --> 03:49:19.976
refusal because it's approved.

03:49:20.000 --> 03:49:21.415
Thank you.

03:49:21.439 --> 03:49:24.439
Do I have someone speaking for

03:49:27.199 --> 03:49:30.199
No, no, no. Um, look, I I think that

03:49:31.199 --> 03:49:33.255
we're getting caught up on a couple of

03:49:33.279 --> 03:49:34.616
things. Um, we're getting caught up on

03:49:34.640 --> 03:49:36.536
this one December date. We're getting

03:49:36.560 --> 03:49:38.536
caught up on the the 40 years. We're

03:49:38.560 --> 03:49:40.936
getting caught up on um, you know, so

03:49:40.960 --> 03:49:43.816
many things which are not really really

03:49:43.840 --> 03:49:46.056
relevant. If we look at the five points

03:49:46.080 --> 03:49:48.136
in the recommendation, you know the

03:49:48.160 --> 03:49:50.295
whether this was decided whether this

03:49:50.319 --> 03:49:53.016
was brought before us  before one

03:49:53.040 --> 03:49:54.936
December the recommendations would have

03:49:54.960 --> 03:49:56.375
remained the same on the grounds that

03:49:56.399 --> 03:49:59.399
it's a substantial change. Um we're not

03:50:00.080 --> 03:50:02.295
discussing here whether it's 40 years or

03:50:02.319 --> 03:50:05.319
10 years. This is not um an issue that

03:50:05.840 --> 03:50:07.736
we are debating

03:50:07.760 --> 03:50:09.496
um in in terms of the staff

03:50:09.520 --> 03:50:11.896
recommendations. So I feel in terms of

03:50:11.920 --> 03:50:13.415
compliance I I was a little bit

03:50:13.439 --> 03:50:15.335
surprised that um one of the arguments

03:50:15.359 --> 03:50:17.896
against this was to to do with um you

03:50:17.920 --> 03:50:19.816
know a business that employs a large

03:50:19.840 --> 03:50:22.616
number of people and yet the previous um

03:50:22.640 --> 03:50:24.536
 DA we actually didn't approve which

03:50:24.560 --> 03:50:26.215
was also a business but anyway that's by

03:50:26.239 --> 03:50:28.696
the buy um

03:50:28.720 --> 03:50:31.255
I I think in terms of compliance don't

03:50:31.279 --> 03:50:33.175
worry about um you know whether this is

03:50:33.199 --> 03:50:34.776
a business that's been operating for 50

03:50:34.800 --> 03:50:36.375
years we have to look at it in terms of

03:50:36.399 --> 03:50:38.616
compliance and I I think based on

03:50:38.640 --> 03:50:40.375
compliance the um The officer's

03:50:40.399 --> 03:50:41.896
recommendation is what we need to be

03:50:41.920 --> 03:50:43.736
supporting today. I will actually point

03:50:43.760 --> 03:50:44.936
out that there doesn't appear to be a

03:50:44.960 --> 03:50:46.455
foreshadowed motion on the table as

03:50:46.479 --> 03:50:47.096
well.

03:50:47.120 --> 03:50:49.255
Yes, I would have said that before I

03:50:49.279 --> 03:50:50.616
went to write. Thank you.

03:50:50.640 --> 03:50:51.496
My apologies.

03:50:51.520 --> 03:50:53.496
All good. Do I have someone speaking?

03:50:53.520 --> 03:50:56.215
Mr. Mayor, I'm happy to for a motion.

03:50:56.239 --> 03:50:58.856
Thanks. Thank you.

03:50:58.880 --> 03:51:01.255
Do I have someone speaking against

03:51:01.279 --> 03:51:04.056
councelor Rooney?

03:51:04.080 --> 03:51:06.776
Um I think McMires have been treated

03:51:06.800 --> 03:51:09.736
very unfairly in this process.

03:51:09.760 --> 03:51:12.760
 they approached council in March

03:51:12.800 --> 03:51:15.016
requesting an extension of their

03:51:15.040 --> 03:51:17.496
existing development application and

03:51:17.520 --> 03:51:19.175
they responded to all of council's

03:51:19.199 --> 03:51:22.136
request for information by July

03:51:22.160 --> 03:51:24.375
and they didn't get a response back from

03:51:24.399 --> 03:51:27.399
council until now December  after

03:51:27.680 --> 03:51:30.680
which time the existing DA is expired so

03:51:31.520 --> 03:51:34.136
that their original application to renew

03:51:34.160 --> 03:51:37.160
a DA has just been invalidated by these

03:51:37.359 --> 03:51:40.359
delays Now I think  that's unfair to

03:51:41.920 --> 03:51:44.920
that's unfair to make plans. If we I

03:51:45.199 --> 03:51:46.696
believe that we should be assessing this

03:51:46.720 --> 03:51:49.335
as though it was a a continuation of a

03:51:49.359 --> 03:51:52.359
decency DA then the question ought to be

03:51:53.120 --> 03:51:56.120
is the  is the application  to

03:51:57.279 --> 03:52:00.279
continue mining substantially different

03:52:01.279 --> 03:52:03.976
 from  from what they currently do.

03:52:04.000 --> 03:52:07.000
Yeah, I I would submit to councils that

03:52:07.040 --> 03:52:08.536
no, it's not substantially different at

03:52:08.560 --> 03:52:11.560
all. If we were to take  u a typical

03:52:13.040 --> 03:52:15.415
 genderine resident who drives up and

03:52:15.439 --> 03:52:17.255
down the alpine way regularly, doesn't

03:52:17.279 --> 03:52:18.776
even know there's a mine there, for

03:52:18.800 --> 03:52:20.696
example, like councelor Rosie, you don't

03:52:20.720 --> 03:52:22.616
mind me using

03:52:22.640 --> 03:52:25.640
We took him to that mine site in 

03:52:25.760 --> 03:52:27.415
November and and asked him to look. They

03:52:27.439 --> 03:52:29.896
said, "Look, here's a here's a good mine

03:52:29.920 --> 03:52:31.816
employing over a dozen people, producing

03:52:31.840 --> 03:52:33.255
high quality rock and gravel,

03:52:33.279 --> 03:52:36.279
disease-free to   areas in the

03:52:36.880 --> 03:52:38.936
snowman, including within the national

03:52:38.960 --> 03:52:41.960
park. Um, and then we took him back 

03:52:43.520 --> 03:52:46.520
in December or January next year was

03:52:46.800 --> 03:52:49.800
he's abandoned mine.  there are other

03:52:49.840 --> 03:52:52.136
people unemployed.  nothing's

03:52:52.160 --> 03:52:54.056
happening there. And now we're trucking

03:52:54.080 --> 03:52:57.016
in possibly contaminated rock, gravel,

03:52:57.040 --> 03:52:58.696
and wood outside the region at double

03:52:58.720 --> 03:53:01.720
the cost, exposing snowy Monero to the

03:53:01.920 --> 03:53:04.215
risk of dieback. People say, "Well, this

03:53:04.239 --> 03:53:06.776
is completely different." Well, by

03:53:06.800 --> 03:53:08.856
terminating that mine, that is a

03:53:08.880 --> 03:53:11.415
substantial change. By allowing it to

03:53:11.439 --> 03:53:13.736
continue in its current form, that is

03:53:13.760 --> 03:53:15.736
not a substantial change. That is

03:53:15.760 --> 03:53:18.616
substantially the same.

03:53:18.640 --> 03:53:21.640
And council agree. So, so look, let's

03:53:23.520 --> 03:53:25.656
let's have a look at what we  have at

03:53:25.680 --> 03:53:28.616
risk here. Well, it it's  it's a very

03:53:28.640 --> 03:53:30.455
good quality product they're producing

03:53:30.479 --> 03:53:33.335
at a very low cost, certified free of

03:53:33.359 --> 03:53:36.359
dieback, and  if if it's shut down,

03:53:38.319 --> 03:53:40.776
 basically because of objections from

03:53:40.800 --> 03:53:43.175
neighbors,  we're going to face higher

03:53:43.199 --> 03:53:44.616
costs as a council. We'll have to pay

03:53:44.640 --> 03:53:47.096
twice as much  for rock and gravel

03:53:47.120 --> 03:53:49.816
from building roads as we currently do.

03:53:49.840 --> 03:53:52.455
 how are we going to maintain  the

03:53:52.479 --> 03:53:55.175
walking tracks  on the alpine way

03:53:55.199 --> 03:53:58.136
which are made from this unique blend of

03:53:58.160 --> 03:54:00.375
granite and diorite which is quite

03:54:00.399 --> 03:54:01.976
attractive to the eye counselors it's

03:54:02.000 --> 03:54:04.455
that salt and pepper granite that should

03:54:04.479 --> 03:54:07.479
be familiar with how how do we find

03:54:07.600 --> 03:54:10.215
matching  gravel that's compatible

03:54:10.239 --> 03:54:11.976
with what's there already I don't think

03:54:12.000 --> 03:54:14.536
we can and how will all other

03:54:14.560 --> 03:54:16.696
construction activities within the

03:54:16.720 --> 03:54:19.720
national  park continue without access

03:54:20.800 --> 03:54:23.175
to this this product. I think we're

03:54:23.199 --> 03:54:25.736
risking a lot here, counselors. And

03:54:25.760 --> 03:54:28.760
lastly, look, I I don't want to be a

03:54:29.120 --> 03:54:31.255
Grinch that destroys Christmas for a

03:54:31.279 --> 03:54:34.136
dozen or so workers at this quarry. I

03:54:34.160 --> 03:54:36.936
mean, what's Mr. McMahon meant to do,

03:54:36.960 --> 03:54:39.335
say to her stuff? Merry Christmas.

03:54:39.359 --> 03:54:41.656
You're fired. , I don't want her to be

03:54:41.680 --> 03:54:43.255
saying that. I want to be saying, "Merry

03:54:43.279 --> 03:54:45.415
Christmas. , your jobs are guaranteed

03:54:45.439 --> 03:54:46.856
for another 12 months, so here's the

03:54:46.880 --> 03:54:49.335
bonus." I think that is a humane thing

03:54:49.359 --> 03:54:51.976
for us to do. Counselors, now we've been

03:54:52.000 --> 03:54:55.000
advised by  staff that we cannot

03:54:56.160 --> 03:54:58.616
contradict their advice by saying 

03:54:58.640 --> 03:55:01.175
what they recommend  be refused. 

03:55:01.199 --> 03:55:03.415
this should be accepted. All we can do

03:55:03.439 --> 03:55:06.439
is recommend a deferral to this DA and

03:55:07.680 --> 03:55:10.455
ask the proponents to come back with

03:55:10.479 --> 03:55:12.616
modification. I I recommend that's what

03:55:12.640 --> 03:55:14.696
we do. And I would suggest to the

03:55:14.720 --> 03:55:16.536
proponents that the modification should

03:55:16.560 --> 03:55:18.696
be we'll give proper notice to our

03:55:18.720 --> 03:55:21.096
neighbors when blasting occurs so that

03:55:21.120 --> 03:55:23.896
we don't catch them by surprise. We use

03:55:23.920 --> 03:55:25.896
whatever technologies are available to

03:55:25.920 --> 03:55:28.696
suppress dust. We we read about the

03:55:28.720 --> 03:55:31.175
gravel block with our attachments which

03:55:31.199 --> 03:55:34.199
will suppress  dust and  basically

03:55:36.239 --> 03:55:38.056
 see what can be done to mitigate the

03:55:38.080 --> 03:55:41.080
noise  for neighbors and  come back

03:55:41.600 --> 03:55:44.600
to us next year but in the meantime it

03:55:45.439 --> 03:55:48.136
should be business as usual at that m at

03:55:48.160 --> 03:55:50.375
that time.

03:55:50.399 --> 03:55:53.096
Thank you councelor. I'll just clarify

03:55:53.120 --> 03:55:54.856
one thing with staff before we go on

03:55:54.880 --> 03:55:57.880
with that.  if they just to clarify 

03:55:59.120 --> 03:56:02.120
if this motion doesn't get up

03:56:02.239 --> 03:56:04.056
and they want to approve it has to be

03:56:04.080 --> 03:56:07.080
deferred and come back in February

03:56:10.160 --> 03:56:12.375
yes um conditions of

03:56:12.399 --> 03:56:13.016
consent

03:56:13.040 --> 03:56:15.415
consent for it would need to be brought

03:56:15.439 --> 03:56:15.896
forward.

03:56:15.920 --> 03:56:16.295
Yeah.

03:56:16.319 --> 03:56:16.616
Um

03:56:16.640 --> 03:56:17.736
and you have to go and talk to the

03:56:17.760 --> 03:56:19.255
applicant about those conditions of

03:56:19.279 --> 03:56:21.096
consent before it comes back to council.

03:56:21.120 --> 03:56:23.896
Sorry. Sorry. Are we changing the actual

03:56:23.920 --> 03:56:26.920
application or are we just saying I

03:56:27.600 --> 03:56:29.576
don't know what the approval is we're

03:56:29.600 --> 03:56:30.536
talking about. So we talking

03:56:30.560 --> 03:56:31.976
let's hypothetically say that you want

03:56:32.000 --> 03:56:33.736
to reduce the years. Is that what I'm

03:56:33.760 --> 03:56:34.696
hearing?

03:56:34.720 --> 03:56:37.720
One is the  the change to the time the

03:56:38.880 --> 03:56:41.880
temple time limit of time be 10 years

03:56:42.239 --> 03:56:43.736
instead of 40.

03:56:43.760 --> 03:56:45.415
The question would be could we direct

03:56:45.439 --> 03:56:48.136
staff to approve the DA subject to a

03:56:48.160 --> 03:56:50.136
temporal time limit in subsection 2 of

03:56:50.160 --> 03:56:51.736
10 years.

03:56:51.760 --> 03:56:53.576
because then nothing else in the DA has

03:56:53.600 --> 03:56:56.600
changed.

03:56:59.680 --> 03:57:00.696
I don't think you can do that.

03:57:00.720 --> 03:57:02.375
I got to be in the

03:57:02.399 --> 03:57:04.295
council set the temple time limit in the

03:57:04.319 --> 03:57:06.856
first instance. That's the um that's the

03:57:06.880 --> 03:57:09.335
issue at hand is that seizing section

03:57:09.359 --> 03:57:12.136
two now without council approval.

03:57:12.160 --> 03:57:13.496
Sorry, I'll just ask the staff the

03:57:13.520 --> 03:57:16.520
question. How would this work if I we

03:57:16.720 --> 03:57:17.976
this doesn't I'm just trying to get

03:57:18.000 --> 03:57:19.255
through my head. So I don't want to

03:57:19.279 --> 03:57:20.295
waste people's time. I don't want to

03:57:20.319 --> 03:57:22.455
waste the applicant's time either.

03:57:22.479 --> 03:57:24.616
If I can just clarify first up that what

03:57:24.640 --> 03:57:26.536
we're talking about here is that council

03:57:26.560 --> 03:57:27.335
says

03:57:27.359 --> 03:57:30.359
they wish to approve the the

03:57:31.520 --> 03:57:32.215
application.

03:57:32.239 --> 03:57:32.776
Yeah.

03:57:32.800 --> 03:57:35.800
But with modified conditions effectively

03:57:36.399 --> 03:57:39.016
compared to what's been applied for.

03:57:39.040 --> 03:57:40.375
Do we have to tell you those modified

03:57:40.399 --> 03:57:42.375
conditions?

03:57:42.399 --> 03:57:44.056
No. I just want to get first that that's

03:57:44.080 --> 03:57:46.056
what we are talking about the council

03:57:46.080 --> 03:57:46.455
wish.

03:57:46.479 --> 03:57:47.415
Okay. Let's say that's what they're

03:57:47.439 --> 03:57:49.896
talking about. Is this the motion that

03:57:49.920 --> 03:57:51.096
I think so? I'm just trying to work out

03:57:51.120 --> 03:57:52.056
how this will work.

03:57:52.080 --> 03:57:54.375
I'm just trying to get clarification so

03:57:54.399 --> 03:57:57.399
Mr. Gag can actually answer accurately.

03:57:57.439 --> 03:58:00.136
I think we start getting the correction.

03:58:00.160 --> 03:58:03.160
So you clear on the intent?

03:58:04.399 --> 03:58:07.399
So

03:58:09.199 --> 03:58:12.199
the application

03:58:12.399 --> 03:58:14.536
you defer the decision and instruct the

03:58:14.560 --> 03:58:17.560
applicant to amend their application.

03:58:18.160 --> 03:58:20.375
No, is that what we're saying?

03:58:20.399 --> 03:58:23.399
No. that they want to wait until

03:58:24.319 --> 03:58:27.016
approval but the approval is not going

03:58:27.040 --> 03:58:28.936
to be on the grounds that task for

03:58:28.960 --> 03:58:31.960
example instead of using action they

03:58:32.800 --> 03:58:35.175
only going to get approval for 10 years

03:58:35.199 --> 03:58:37.096
that's what that's what I just said they

03:58:37.120 --> 03:58:40.120
have to amend the application so at the

03:58:40.640 --> 03:58:42.136
moment the position that's being put

03:58:42.160 --> 03:58:45.016
forward is 40 years does not meet the

03:58:45.040 --> 03:58:47.255
test

03:58:47.279 --> 03:58:49.736
as I said earlier if you wanted to go

03:58:49.760 --> 03:58:52.136
for 10 It's they need to amend the

03:58:52.160 --> 03:58:54.776
application. Yeah. To to address that

03:58:54.800 --> 03:58:56.776
because the impacts from 10 years to 40

03:58:56.800 --> 03:58:58.936
years and if I can just show you on

03:58:58.960 --> 03:59:01.960
point one just to clarify

03:59:03.199 --> 03:59:04.776
scroll

03:59:04.800 --> 03:59:05.976
that

03:59:06.000 --> 03:59:09.000
Mr. Mayor can I draw our attention to

03:59:09.439 --> 03:59:12.439
excuse me

03:59:13.439 --> 03:59:15.496
we're nearly there.

03:59:15.520 --> 03:59:17.976
Sorry Councelor Taylor. No, I'm asking

03:59:18.000 --> 03:59:19.415
document reading from

03:59:19.439 --> 03:59:21.496
I am getting the answer from the

03:59:21.520 --> 03:59:22.056
experts.

03:59:22.080 --> 03:59:22.776
It's here in the

03:59:22.800 --> 03:59:24.455
I'm asking the experts.

03:59:24.479 --> 03:59:26.295
I'm nearly there.

03:59:26.319 --> 03:59:27.255
He's not asking any question. He's

03:59:27.279 --> 03:59:28.696
trying to answer it.

03:59:28.720 --> 03:59:31.096
I'm just saying

03:59:31.120 --> 03:59:33.816
what this in that one. It's significant

03:59:33.840 --> 03:59:35.736
increase in the duration impacts of the

03:59:35.760 --> 03:59:36.616
development.

03:59:36.640 --> 03:59:39.096
So 40 years. So 10 years is a different

03:59:39.120 --> 03:59:40.215
kettle of fish.

03:59:40.239 --> 03:59:41.255
That's right.

03:59:41.279 --> 03:59:42.536
40%. point.

03:59:42.560 --> 03:59:45.560
So you would also need to give reasons

03:59:46.399 --> 03:59:49.255
for why you would want to approve

03:59:49.279 --> 03:59:50.616
what you're wanting to approve. So

03:59:50.640 --> 03:59:51.496
because when you issue the

03:59:51.520 --> 03:59:52.776
determination, there's reasons for the

03:59:52.800 --> 03:59:53.255
approval.

03:59:53.279 --> 03:59:53.976
Can I ask another question?

03:59:54.000 --> 03:59:57.000
However, let me council hand up first.

03:59:57.040 --> 03:59:59.096
If I may assist, if we look at the

03:59:59.120 --> 03:59:59.496
document,

03:59:59.520 --> 04:00:01.016
what's your question?

04:00:01.040 --> 04:00:02.536
I want to read what it says.

04:00:02.560 --> 04:00:05.560
I'm asking for if we read what it says,

04:00:06.000 --> 04:00:07.656
it tells us how this works.

04:00:07.680 --> 04:00:10.056
Council Taylor resolve

04:00:10.080 --> 04:00:11.096
order. Council

04:00:11.120 --> 04:00:13.255
point of order. It's the staff who

04:00:13.279 --> 04:00:15.576
answered question. It's not the council.

04:00:15.600 --> 04:00:16.056
Thank you.

04:00:16.080 --> 04:00:18.616
Council, you can ask question

04:00:18.640 --> 04:00:20.776
can ask a question. You do not debate

04:00:20.800 --> 04:00:23.415
answers. I don't understand the code.

04:00:23.439 --> 04:00:26.439
Mr. Go read out the policy part two in

04:00:26.720 --> 04:00:29.415
situation one where tells us there are

04:00:29.439 --> 04:00:29.576
two.

04:00:29.600 --> 04:00:30.536
You've got it in front of you so you

04:00:30.560 --> 04:00:31.415
know the answer to it.

04:00:31.439 --> 04:00:31.976
Do more.

04:00:32.000 --> 04:00:33.576
Council Hopkins your question.

04:00:33.600 --> 04:00:36.600
Not be heard. So actually approve a DA

04:00:36.800 --> 04:00:38.696
with different conditions to what an

04:00:38.720 --> 04:00:41.335
applicant actually wants, desires, can

04:00:41.359 --> 04:00:41.976
work with.

04:00:42.000 --> 04:00:42.776
Yes.

04:00:42.800 --> 04:00:44.856
Sorry. Councelor Failer, you are not the

04:00:44.880 --> 04:00:47.335
expert. I'll ask you to stop answering

04:00:47.359 --> 04:00:47.976
questions.

04:00:48.000 --> 04:00:49.896
I'm getting out of his causing me with

04:00:49.920 --> 04:00:50.936
more arms.

04:00:50.960 --> 04:00:52.056
I'm sorry. There's a

04:00:52.080 --> 04:00:54.295
No, sorry, Council Faylor.

04:00:54.319 --> 04:00:55.175
Stop fight.

04:00:55.199 --> 04:00:57.576
Stop arguing. Councelor Hoppins asked

04:00:57.600 --> 04:00:59.096
the question. I will then refer it to

04:00:59.120 --> 04:01:00.776
the staff to answer.

04:01:00.800 --> 04:01:02.536
You do not You do not Sorry. You do not

04:01:02.560 --> 04:01:04.455
need to answer the questions. have a

04:01:04.479 --> 04:01:05.656
policy

04:01:05.680 --> 04:01:07.096
and that and the staff can answer the

04:01:07.120 --> 04:01:08.375
question from the policy.

04:01:08.399 --> 04:01:10.295
Can you go to that policy yourself?

04:01:10.319 --> 04:01:12.056
I need to ask

04:01:12.080 --> 04:01:14.295
Andrew I think the Mayor is trying to

04:01:14.319 --> 04:01:14.936
help.

04:01:14.960 --> 04:01:17.960
Yeah, it's all there for more harm and

04:01:18.319 --> 04:01:19.096
good for those.

04:01:19.120 --> 04:01:21.576
Sorry, let's just The question was from

04:01:21.600 --> 04:01:23.816
councelor Hopkins. Repeat your question

04:01:23.840 --> 04:01:26.840
to the staff. Can councilors

04:01:27.600 --> 04:01:30.600
approve a DA with different conditions

04:01:31.120 --> 04:01:33.335
which could possibly make the DA

04:01:33.359 --> 04:01:34.696
different from what an applicant

04:01:34.720 --> 04:01:37.720
actually wants. For example, if you say

04:01:38.800 --> 04:01:40.536
I'm totally going on a different example

04:01:40.560 --> 04:01:42.696
now, say I've got a DA application in

04:01:42.720 --> 04:01:44.375
for a house and we approve it, but to

04:01:44.399 --> 04:01:46.295
say you can only put one car space in,

04:01:46.319 --> 04:01:48.455
not three. If we do that from the floor

04:01:48.479 --> 04:01:50.375
of council, you're actually changing

04:01:50.399 --> 04:01:52.375
what you're allowing like from the floor

04:01:52.399 --> 04:01:53.736
of council what you're allowing an

04:01:53.760 --> 04:01:56.136
applicant to do. And I'm slightly

04:01:56.160 --> 04:01:58.215
surprised that we could do that because

04:01:58.239 --> 04:01:59.816
you're going to give something to an

04:01:59.840 --> 04:02:01.736
applicant who doesn't necessarily want

04:02:01.760 --> 04:02:03.816
that.

04:02:03.840 --> 04:02:05.415
No, sorry to counter.

04:02:05.439 --> 04:02:07.415
I don't think that's what you can

04:02:07.439 --> 04:02:10.215
I don't know how you do that.

04:02:10.239 --> 04:02:12.856
Applicant needs to request the change.

04:02:12.880 --> 04:02:13.255
Yeah.

04:02:13.279 --> 04:02:14.856
Under section 37.

04:02:14.880 --> 04:02:15.896
Yep. from the

04:02:15.920 --> 04:02:18.536
so council can't dictate a change

04:02:18.560 --> 04:02:20.455
the the matter before council is 40

04:02:20.479 --> 04:02:21.576
years

04:02:21.600 --> 04:02:21.896
okay

04:02:21.920 --> 04:02:23.255
and that's what we consider

04:02:23.279 --> 04:02:25.335
if you want you need to go back to the

04:02:25.359 --> 04:02:27.175
applicant to modify because there is

04:02:27.199 --> 04:02:29.576
different years 40 years different

04:02:29.600 --> 04:02:32.600
impact so they need to modify their

04:02:32.800 --> 04:02:35.800
and we're nearly there

04:02:38.160 --> 04:02:39.816
if you get all this interjection be one

04:02:39.840 --> 04:02:40.375
way

04:02:40.399 --> 04:02:43.016
so councelor Stewart are you done

04:02:43.040 --> 04:02:46.040
yeah rose people over and done.

04:02:46.080 --> 04:02:48.295
Mr. Bes

04:02:48.319 --> 04:02:50.936
looks it looks very precut

04:02:50.960 --> 04:02:52.616
just so we all understand because I

04:02:52.640 --> 04:02:55.255
think if councilors vote against this

04:02:55.279 --> 04:02:55.736
motion

04:02:55.760 --> 04:02:56.696
yes

04:02:56.720 --> 04:02:58.696
the foreshadowed motion according to Mr.

04:02:58.720 --> 04:03:01.720
Gar get um is quite simple that is that

04:03:02.640 --> 04:03:05.640
it actually then is going back to for

04:03:06.239 --> 04:03:09.239
discussion with the proponents to make

04:03:09.680 --> 04:03:11.976
an associated amendment. So we don't do

04:03:12.000 --> 04:03:15.000
any amendments now. Um, no, no. Um, the

04:03:15.359 --> 04:03:17.736
the issue I think is that we don't want

04:03:17.760 --> 04:03:20.760
to sort of try and work this story out

04:03:21.520 --> 04:03:23.576
as councelor Hopkins is saying I think

04:03:23.600 --> 04:03:26.600
now the issue is if we don't agree with

04:03:27.120 --> 04:03:28.215
with

04:03:28.239 --> 04:03:30.215
the recommendation or the on the board.

04:03:30.239 --> 04:03:30.616
Yes.

04:03:30.640 --> 04:03:32.696
Then it's a very simple story because

04:03:32.720 --> 04:03:35.720
then there's a Mr. get pointed out that

04:03:36.080 --> 04:03:37.896
there's an alternative approach then

04:03:37.920 --> 04:03:40.920
which is we go back to the prop to the

04:03:41.920 --> 04:03:43.736
to the applicants and then there's

04:03:43.760 --> 04:03:45.335
discussion and then another application

04:03:45.359 --> 04:03:46.776
comes forward at some stage in the

04:03:46.800 --> 04:03:49.335
future that's what you read out I think

04:03:49.359 --> 04:03:51.415
Mr. Gagget is is the process is that

04:03:51.439 --> 04:03:52.136
right

04:03:52.160 --> 04:03:55.160
yes but they cannot continue work

04:03:55.439 --> 04:03:56.776
tomorrow

04:03:56.800 --> 04:03:57.096
right

04:03:57.120 --> 04:03:58.856
until that's all sorted

04:03:58.880 --> 04:04:00.776
so be very clear about that councelor

04:04:00.800 --> 04:04:02.375
Rooney said the same thing

04:04:02.399 --> 04:04:05.096
they won't be able to continue work

04:04:05.120 --> 04:04:07.496
just have a quick question and so

04:04:07.520 --> 04:04:10.520
because there's been a lot and I just so

04:04:11.120 --> 04:04:14.056
if

04:04:14.080 --> 04:04:17.080
this does not get up today or or does

04:04:17.279 --> 04:04:20.279
get up um

04:04:20.640 --> 04:04:23.016
but this application is rejected

04:04:23.040 --> 04:04:24.056
yes

04:04:24.080 --> 04:04:26.776
can the applicant put in a new

04:04:26.800 --> 04:04:29.800
application

04:04:30.640 --> 04:04:33.640
not a new DA but a new application for

04:04:33.840 --> 04:04:36.840
an extension since the DA still exists

04:04:37.199 --> 04:04:39.656
a modification. So the DA still exists,

04:04:39.680 --> 04:04:40.936
right?

04:04:40.960 --> 04:04:43.415
But they're wanting to modify

04:04:43.439 --> 04:04:44.375
things,

04:04:44.399 --> 04:04:45.576
different modification.

04:04:45.600 --> 04:04:48.600
Can So does that does that mean that

04:04:49.840 --> 04:04:51.976
they can put in an application for an

04:04:52.000 --> 04:04:55.000
alternative modification?

04:04:57.920 --> 04:05:00.920
The the position being put forward is at

04:05:03.680 --> 04:05:06.680
the what the interpretation of condition

04:05:06.720 --> 04:05:09.720
two about additional appro approval can

04:05:10.080 --> 04:05:12.856
be sought for extension. Okay, that's

04:05:12.880 --> 04:05:14.936
just want to be clear on that.

04:05:14.960 --> 04:05:17.335
That's sorry.

04:05:17.359 --> 04:05:18.776
So is that in what you've got here

04:05:18.800 --> 04:05:19.415
already?

04:05:19.439 --> 04:05:21.896
Yes, it's in the so if it's been if it's

04:05:21.920 --> 04:05:23.016
refused

04:05:23.040 --> 04:05:25.576
the applicant has lots of choices,

04:05:25.600 --> 04:05:28.600
right? they may wish to

04:05:28.800 --> 04:05:30.856
lodge a new application, ask for the

04:05:30.880 --> 04:05:33.816
application to be reviewed. Um or they

04:05:33.840 --> 04:05:36.840
can go to court and I think that's

04:05:38.000 --> 04:05:40.536
um they're the options

04:05:40.560 --> 04:05:42.136
they but one of the options is they can

04:05:42.160 --> 04:05:43.415
put in a new application.

04:05:43.439 --> 04:05:43.976
Sure.

04:05:44.000 --> 04:05:44.616
Modification

04:05:44.640 --> 04:05:46.215
for a modification because

04:05:46.239 --> 04:05:47.896
and they could amend the application or

04:05:47.920 --> 04:05:50.295
Yeah. I just want to be clear

04:05:50.319 --> 04:05:52.776
um because you know people are adding in

04:05:52.800 --> 04:05:55.800
all these different catastrophizing

04:05:56.000 --> 04:05:59.000
assumptions and I think you know I just

04:05:59.120 --> 04:06:00.856
need to be clear. So thank you for that

04:06:00.880 --> 04:06:02.375
too.

04:06:02.399 --> 04:06:02.776
All right.

04:06:02.800 --> 04:06:04.215
I would like to speak

04:06:04.239 --> 04:06:04.696
for

04:06:04.720 --> 04:06:05.335
Yeah.

04:06:05.359 --> 04:06:07.736
Okay. That's what I'm up to.

04:06:07.760 --> 04:06:08.375
Five minutes.

04:06:08.399 --> 04:06:10.856
Awesome. Right. So now that I've had

04:06:10.880 --> 04:06:13.880
that clarification, this is a planning

04:06:14.319 --> 04:06:16.696
decision under our DAS. This is

04:06:16.720 --> 04:06:18.856
something we're asked to do every month.

04:06:18.880 --> 04:06:21.816
This is a planning decision. It's not a

04:06:21.840 --> 04:06:23.736
decision on our assumption of someone

04:06:23.760 --> 04:06:26.760
else's  business or anything like that

04:06:27.439 --> 04:06:29.816
is actually quite simple. This is a

04:06:29.840 --> 04:06:32.840
planning decision that is made under our

04:06:32.880 --> 04:06:35.880
planning legislation.

04:06:36.640 --> 04:06:38.936
The people who we pay in this

04:06:38.960 --> 04:06:41.736
organization with degrees in planning

04:06:41.760 --> 04:06:44.215
and lots of experience,

04:06:44.239 --> 04:06:46.536
our experts essentially who know better

04:06:46.560 --> 04:06:49.560
than we do really have assessed this

04:06:50.479 --> 04:06:53.479
application and have recommended that it

04:06:54.160 --> 04:06:56.696
not be approved because it is considered

04:06:56.720 --> 04:06:58.215
unsuitable.

04:06:58.239 --> 04:07:01.239
The reason in my understanding

04:07:01.920 --> 04:07:04.920
is quite simple. An extension assumes

04:07:05.439 --> 04:07:07.896
it's the same proposal

04:07:07.920 --> 04:07:10.616
because it's an expansion of time and

04:07:10.640 --> 04:07:13.415
volume. It's not considered the same. So

04:07:13.439 --> 04:07:15.656
this is very clear, this is very simple

04:07:15.680 --> 04:07:18.536
that it did not meet that criteria.

04:07:18.560 --> 04:07:21.096
 I also note because no one else has

04:07:21.120 --> 04:07:22.616
mentioned it that Transport for New

04:07:22.640 --> 04:07:25.640
South Wales did not approve as well that

04:07:26.000 --> 04:07:29.000
the um that this modification be

04:07:29.520 --> 04:07:32.295
approved. So

04:07:32.319 --> 04:07:34.056
reminding everybody this is about

04:07:34.080 --> 04:07:36.056
planning. It is not about economic

04:07:36.080 --> 04:07:38.136
development. It is not about all the

04:07:38.160 --> 04:07:39.415
other things that have been raised

04:07:39.439 --> 04:07:41.816
today. It is a planning decision which

04:07:41.840 --> 04:07:44.840
this is part of our fundamental role as

04:07:45.279 --> 04:07:47.496
counselors that we are asked to do every

04:07:47.520 --> 04:07:50.520
month. It gets very complicated when

04:07:50.640 --> 04:07:53.496
it's our property or in this instance we

04:07:53.520 --> 04:07:56.056
are a large customer and we are one of

04:07:56.080 --> 04:07:59.080
the organizations that are potentially

04:07:59.600 --> 04:08:01.736
impacted by this. So I think it's very

04:08:01.760 --> 04:08:03.736
very good that this is not in

04:08:03.760 --> 04:08:06.455
confidential that this is open and a

04:08:06.479 --> 04:08:09.335
transparent decision made by the 11 of

04:08:09.359 --> 04:08:12.359
us. I will be supporting the

04:08:12.399 --> 04:08:14.056
recommendation that staff have put

04:08:14.080 --> 04:08:16.375
forward because they have assessed it

04:08:16.399 --> 04:08:18.056
against the legislation and the

04:08:18.080 --> 04:08:19.736
legislative framework that we are

04:08:19.760 --> 04:08:21.656
required to work within. Their

04:08:21.680 --> 04:08:24.375
recommendation is it not be approved.

04:08:24.399 --> 04:08:27.399
What happens next is not our business.

04:08:28.640 --> 04:08:29.096
Thank you.

04:08:29.120 --> 04:08:30.056
Question.

04:08:30.080 --> 04:08:31.576
Yes, council had a question.

04:08:31.600 --> 04:08:34.600
A question for  acting CEO or Mr.

04:08:36.239 --> 04:08:39.239
Garett. Did we get two letters from

04:08:39.279 --> 04:08:41.096
Transport for New South Wales? One in

04:08:41.120 --> 04:08:43.896
support and one late which wasn't in

04:08:43.920 --> 04:08:46.920
support but was about the bumen seal.

04:08:53.760 --> 04:08:56.760
Um might actually if it's okay ask Sarah

04:08:58.160 --> 04:08:59.976
Brown who's actually online. Sorry just

04:09:00.000 --> 04:09:02.375
to clarify that I

04:09:02.399 --> 04:09:04.616
if Sarah's there still there.

04:09:04.640 --> 04:09:06.616
Yeah sorry through you Mr. Mayor. Um,

04:09:06.640 --> 04:09:08.375
councelor Thea, could you just re ask

04:09:08.399 --> 04:09:09.335
that?

04:09:09.359 --> 04:09:11.656
Did we get two letters from Transport

04:09:11.680 --> 04:09:13.656
for New South Wales? One letter early in

04:09:13.680 --> 04:09:16.680
the period in support of the DA and a

04:09:17.680 --> 04:09:20.680
later letter not strictly in support but

04:09:21.279 --> 04:09:23.736
was concerned about the lack of seal on

04:09:23.760 --> 04:09:25.736
the quarry driveway and the entrance of

04:09:25.760 --> 04:09:28.136
Black Sally Lane to the highway.

04:09:28.160 --> 04:09:30.375
Not to my knowledge.

04:09:30.399 --> 04:09:33.399
Thank you. Do I have someone speaking

04:09:33.439 --> 04:09:36.439
against councelor Elliot?

04:09:38.640 --> 04:09:40.776
I felt we're elected by our community

04:09:40.800 --> 04:09:42.616
and the McMahons are part of our

04:09:42.640 --> 04:09:44.616
community.

04:09:44.640 --> 04:09:46.295
My biggest thing when I looked at this

04:09:46.319 --> 04:09:49.319
was a 40-year extension and I and that

04:09:49.520 --> 04:09:52.520
made me a little doubtful, but I've also

04:09:53.199 --> 04:09:56.199
grown up in the area and I learned in

04:09:57.040 --> 04:09:59.896
becoming an expert on quarry that a lot

04:09:59.920 --> 04:10:02.455
of it is governed by demand. It's not a

04:10:02.479 --> 04:10:04.136
matter of just going in and digging a

04:10:04.160 --> 04:10:07.160
hole and you know you know that there's

04:10:07.920 --> 04:10:10.536
10,000 tons coming out 5 years that'll

04:10:10.560 --> 04:10:13.560
be 50,000 tons. It doesn't work that way

04:10:14.319 --> 04:10:17.319
as we've learned

04:10:17.600 --> 04:10:20.600
in 1970 to 84 that area was owned by a

04:10:21.920 --> 04:10:24.536
fellow called. There was very little

04:10:24.560 --> 04:10:27.175
development in the ski fields or the

04:10:27.199 --> 04:10:30.199
alpine area then. So he had a quarry. He

04:10:30.239 --> 04:10:32.856
just scratched away at it. Whatever. In

04:10:32.880 --> 04:10:35.880
1984, Ski Shoot was approved. A huge

04:10:36.000 --> 04:10:38.936
development, $200 million.

04:10:38.960 --> 04:10:41.496
A fellow called Phil rife from Beridal

04:10:41.520 --> 04:10:44.455
became the major builder at Transfield

04:10:44.479 --> 04:10:47.479
submi submer

04:10:47.600 --> 04:10:50.600
and realized for a project of that size

04:10:51.680 --> 04:10:54.536
he needed quarry and therefore he bought

04:10:54.560 --> 04:10:57.560
the bought it off de

04:10:59.040 --> 04:11:01.816
that meant and then in that time you had

04:11:01.840 --> 04:11:04.840
ski tube you had blue cow threadbow

04:11:05.520 --> 04:11:08.520
redeveloped they had a new owner in. So

04:11:09.520 --> 04:11:12.520
there was a awful lot of demand um in

04:11:12.960 --> 04:11:15.960
that time. After that stopped

04:11:16.880 --> 04:11:19.880
um probably in the 1990s

04:11:21.359 --> 04:11:23.576
there was very little demand for quite

04:11:23.600 --> 04:11:26.600
some time. In the last few years as

04:11:27.520 --> 04:11:30.215
councelor Faylor said there's been huge

04:11:30.239 --> 04:11:33.175
demand especially in the last year.

04:11:33.199 --> 04:11:36.199
We've had the approval and the 50 km

04:11:36.319 --> 04:11:38.776
alpine track put in. We've had mountain

04:11:38.800 --> 04:11:41.800
tracks put in at East Tinder, mountain

04:11:41.920 --> 04:11:44.920
mountain paths put in at Threadbow. Sin

04:11:45.520 --> 04:11:48.056
was rebuilt and that the McMmans were

04:11:48.080 --> 04:11:51.080
involved with that. Charlotte sewage was

04:11:52.160 --> 04:11:55.160
rebuilt in two months. They needed 

04:11:56.080 --> 04:11:58.536
the quarry wouldn't have got the season

04:11:58.560 --> 04:12:00.375
open if they didn't have that sort of

04:12:00.399 --> 04:12:03.399
business there. So what I learned is

04:12:06.319 --> 04:12:09.319
it's the the ext the time is the

04:12:10.160 --> 04:12:13.016
extension of time is needed by the

04:12:13.040 --> 04:12:16.040
demand. I also and I whether it should

04:12:16.080 --> 04:12:19.080
be 40 years I I bit you know that's

04:12:19.279 --> 04:12:22.279
doubtful but I've also learned that it

04:12:24.080 --> 04:12:27.080
could be done in 10 years what's there

04:12:28.239 --> 04:12:30.295
regardless of demand people could

04:12:30.319 --> 04:12:32.696
extract that and stockpilot that would

04:12:32.720 --> 04:12:35.656
cost a little more but it could be done

04:12:35.680 --> 04:12:37.496
so

04:12:37.520 --> 04:12:40.520
um the time frame I think it is

04:12:41.040 --> 04:12:43.816
important um but let's say we've got

04:12:43.840 --> 04:12:46.136
prove it that way. I think you could

04:12:46.160 --> 04:12:47.656
justify it when you looked at the

04:12:47.680 --> 04:12:50.375
history and based on demand.

04:12:50.399 --> 04:12:53.399
The other big thing is there were

04:12:55.120 --> 04:12:58.120
in my research of it

04:12:58.399 --> 04:13:01.175
um back when the McMmans came in before

04:13:01.199 --> 04:13:04.199
then there was no objections whatsoever

04:13:04.880 --> 04:13:07.880
along that road and unfortunately the

04:13:09.120 --> 04:13:11.096
people who have come in in the last 10

04:13:11.120 --> 04:13:14.120
years have um had an expectation that

04:13:16.239 --> 04:13:18.616
this quarry will close on the first of

04:13:18.640 --> 04:13:20.135
 1 of December.

04:13:20.159 --> 04:13:22.616
2025

04:13:22.640 --> 04:13:25.640
there has the McMahons and those people

04:13:26.640 --> 04:13:29.640
that are against it haven't got together

04:13:29.680 --> 04:13:32.680
and that's a pity to work any problems

04:13:32.880 --> 04:13:35.415
out but that hasn't happened. the people

04:13:35.439 --> 04:13:38.439
who are against it have also it's been a

04:13:38.560 --> 04:13:41.560
concerted effort of those 15 objectors

04:13:42.319 --> 04:13:45.319
to meet um

04:13:46.080 --> 04:13:49.080
and and  build up a case against

04:13:49.520 --> 04:13:52.520
McLaren when you talk to and this I'd

04:13:53.279 --> 04:13:55.816
say is probably start don't do it but

04:13:55.840 --> 04:13:58.840
when you walk out when you talk to the

04:13:59.040 --> 04:14:02.040
old residents there and operators

04:14:02.159 --> 04:14:04.936
in the shops right along that

04:14:04.960 --> 04:14:07.960
visitors anywhere else. There are no

04:14:08.000 --> 04:14:10.455
objections against it. One person who

04:14:10.479 --> 04:14:12.616
has been there for a long time, am I

04:14:12.640 --> 04:14:15.640
allowed to name them? Okay. Has made it

04:14:15.920 --> 04:14:18.135
very very clear and he's been there

04:14:18.159 --> 04:14:21.159
since 1970 in that ba valley. He is the

04:14:21.760 --> 04:14:23.816
one person that didn't have an

04:14:23.840 --> 04:14:26.215
objection. That says something about

04:14:26.239 --> 04:14:27.816
that.

04:14:27.840 --> 04:14:29.335
Um

04:14:29.359 --> 04:14:32.359
what else? The other thing, councelor

04:14:32.880 --> 04:14:35.656
Rose is not the only counselor that I'm

04:14:35.680 --> 04:14:38.680
aware of around this table who didn't

04:14:38.960 --> 04:14:41.576
know this year that the quarry existed.

04:14:41.600 --> 04:14:44.215
And I would put it to you that a very

04:14:44.239 --> 04:14:46.455
high percentage of our tourists would

04:14:46.479 --> 04:14:48.215
have no clue

04:14:48.239 --> 04:14:50.616
that it was there.

04:14:50.640 --> 04:14:52.056
You're right.

04:14:52.080 --> 04:14:53.736
May I have a question?

04:14:53.760 --> 04:14:55.816
Yes, councelor. Following on from the

04:14:55.840 --> 04:14:57.736
previous discussion,

04:14:57.760 --> 04:15:00.760
u as we have a policy that staff have

04:15:01.520 --> 04:15:03.816
pointed us to which would be the

04:15:03.840 --> 04:15:06.840
preferred method in situation one staff

04:15:07.439 --> 04:15:09.175
recommend refusal. Council is determined

04:15:09.199 --> 04:15:12.199
to approve subsection two possibilities

04:15:12.560 --> 04:15:15.560
may arise and that is it A or B. Which

04:15:16.000 --> 04:15:18.536
would the staff recommend we consider?

04:15:18.560 --> 04:15:21.255
You don't get to choose an A or B. Those

04:15:21.279 --> 04:15:24.279
two situations are the two possible

04:15:24.479 --> 04:15:25.415
situations.

04:15:25.439 --> 04:15:27.335
Oh, they they are a determinant that we

04:15:27.359 --> 04:15:28.295
fall into.

04:15:28.319 --> 04:15:29.096
Yes. Okay.

04:15:29.120 --> 04:15:31.335
So, in our case, what Mr. Garget has

04:15:31.359 --> 04:15:32.856
said is that the first one there that

04:15:32.880 --> 04:15:34.536
there's a non-compliance with a

04:15:34.560 --> 04:15:37.560
prescriptive or proc procure procedural

04:15:37.920 --> 04:15:39.896
requirement is what it would fall under.

04:15:39.920 --> 04:15:40.936
Is that correct?

04:15:40.960 --> 04:15:41.656
That's correct.

04:15:41.680 --> 04:15:41.976
Yes.

04:15:42.000 --> 04:15:44.056
And and B doesn't apply.

04:15:44.080 --> 04:15:45.415
And B doesn't apply.

04:15:45.439 --> 04:15:46.536
Yes.

04:15:46.560 --> 04:15:46.856
All right.

04:15:46.880 --> 04:15:47.255
Thank you.

04:15:47.279 --> 04:15:49.656
Thank you.

04:15:49.680 --> 04:15:51.816
Someone speaking for that has not spoken

04:15:51.840 --> 04:15:53.896
yet?

04:15:53.920 --> 04:15:56.056
No. Anyone else I talk against that has

04:15:56.080 --> 04:15:59.080
not spoken yet? No. Councelor Summers,

04:15:59.920 --> 04:16:01.576
write a reply.

04:16:01.600 --> 04:16:04.215
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

04:16:04.239 --> 04:16:07.239
Thank you for the discussion and the 

04:16:07.359 --> 04:16:09.976
new facts that have come to light.

04:16:10.000 --> 04:16:12.215
I think this is still think this is a

04:16:12.239 --> 04:16:15.239
fairly simple case.  I am not a lawyer

04:16:15.680 --> 04:16:18.680
and don't profess to be but I do enjoy

04:16:18.720 --> 04:16:21.720
reading the law and to me um we are

04:16:22.080 --> 04:16:25.080
presented with planning law that we need

04:16:25.359 --> 04:16:27.816
to abide by.

04:16:27.840 --> 04:16:30.840
The proponents have an option to apply

04:16:31.439 --> 04:16:34.439
again for another modification might be

04:16:34.479 --> 04:16:37.479
5 years, 5 days, 5 minutes. But the law

04:16:38.960 --> 04:16:41.896
as it stands under the subsection 2 is

04:16:41.920 --> 04:16:44.215
that it was ceased the ability to

04:16:44.239 --> 04:16:46.295
extract material from the 1st of

04:16:46.319 --> 04:16:48.696
December and until such time and

04:16:48.720 --> 04:16:51.096
approval to allow that to is they cannot

04:16:51.120 --> 04:16:53.415
continue to do that until a modification

04:16:53.439 --> 04:16:56.439
is approved if at all. Now the staff

04:16:56.720 --> 04:16:58.295
have said that there were significant

04:16:58.319 --> 04:17:00.776
legal issues to be addressed and that

04:17:00.800 --> 04:17:03.576
took up the time that some counselors

04:17:03.600 --> 04:17:05.656
were concerned about not getting back to

04:17:05.680 --> 04:17:07.496
the proponents. But we need to

04:17:07.520 --> 04:17:10.135
understand that this was not a DA and we

04:17:10.159 --> 04:17:12.135
were not under the same rigors of

04:17:12.159 --> 04:17:14.455
response as we were for a modification

04:17:14.479 --> 04:17:16.936
and it was incumbent upon the staff to

04:17:16.960 --> 04:17:18.856
get the right information to get the

04:17:18.880 --> 04:17:20.856
right legal advice and to interpret that

04:17:20.880 --> 04:17:23.175
in a way that could be presented to us

04:17:23.199 --> 04:17:25.255
to understand it.

04:17:25.279 --> 04:17:27.175
Now the report and recommendation that

04:17:27.199 --> 04:17:29.576
we have before us is a result of that

04:17:29.600 --> 04:17:32.600
legal information. a result of the

04:17:32.640 --> 04:17:33.896
information obtained from the

04:17:33.920 --> 04:17:36.215
independent consultant.

04:17:36.239 --> 04:17:39.175
And as the um officer said, prescriptive

04:17:39.199 --> 04:17:41.255
requirement here is the is the nub of

04:17:41.279 --> 04:17:44.279
the issue and we have no other choice

04:17:44.479 --> 04:17:47.479
but to follow the recommendation and the

04:17:48.319 --> 04:17:50.375
ball is then back in the proponent's

04:17:50.399 --> 04:17:53.096
court to come back to us if they require

04:17:53.120 --> 04:17:55.576
or if they desire with an alternative

04:17:55.600 --> 04:17:57.896
approach which may or may not be a

04:17:57.920 --> 04:17:58.856
shorter period of time.

04:17:58.880 --> 04:18:01.656
I raise a point of order. I I um that is

04:18:01.680 --> 04:18:04.215
an incorrect.  we've just been

04:18:04.239 --> 04:18:07.016
debating the actual policy. We do have a

04:18:07.040 --> 04:18:10.040
choice in whether we support this or

04:18:10.080 --> 04:18:12.135
not. Council Summers has said that we do

04:18:12.159 --> 04:18:13.576
not have a choice. That is factually

04:18:13.600 --> 04:18:14.056
wrong.

04:18:14.080 --> 04:18:16.536
I'm allowed to express my opinion.

04:18:16.560 --> 04:18:17.976
Sorry, but there's an opinion and

04:18:18.000 --> 04:18:19.016
there's a policy

04:18:19.040 --> 04:18:21.175
and I am speaking in accordance with the

04:18:21.199 --> 04:18:23.736
recommendation before us from the staff.

04:18:23.760 --> 04:18:26.056
My view is that we should follow that

04:18:26.080 --> 04:18:28.455
recommendation. It is not the same

04:18:28.479 --> 04:18:31.255
development proposal. Apart from the

04:18:31.279 --> 04:18:33.175
time, there are different areas that

04:18:33.199 --> 04:18:34.616
need to want to be mined. There are

04:18:34.640 --> 04:18:37.335
different amounts, but there is an

04:18:37.359 --> 04:18:39.255
option to come back with another

04:18:39.279 --> 04:18:41.175
modification application under the

04:18:41.199 --> 04:18:43.816
current DA. Yes, they can still access

04:18:43.840 --> 04:18:45.415
the site. They can still survey the

04:18:45.439 --> 04:18:46.856
site. They can still go there. They just

04:18:46.880 --> 04:18:49.335
can't extract anything. But they can

04:18:49.359 --> 04:18:51.016
come back to us with a shorter period of

04:18:51.040 --> 04:18:53.175
time. they can apply for a completely

04:18:53.199 --> 04:18:56.199
new DA under the the current rules or

04:18:56.319 --> 04:18:59.319
they can just say enough's enough. Now,

04:18:59.680 --> 04:19:02.680
I I just cannot see how we can in any

04:19:03.439 --> 04:19:06.439
way oppose the recommendation that's

04:19:06.560 --> 04:19:08.215
there before us because I think either

04:19:08.239 --> 04:19:09.736
way we're going to end up in the land

04:19:09.760 --> 04:19:12.760
environment court if both um proponents

04:19:13.199 --> 04:19:14.936
and opponents

04:19:14.960 --> 04:19:16.295
stick to their guns and there's every

04:19:16.319 --> 04:19:19.319
indication that's going to occur. But if

04:19:19.760 --> 04:19:22.536
we if we pass this motion today, the

04:19:22.560 --> 04:19:24.375
ball then becomes in the opponent's

04:19:24.399 --> 04:19:26.375
court and then maybe that dialogue can

04:19:26.399 --> 04:19:29.399
start. But I don't think it's for us to

04:19:30.640 --> 04:19:33.640
determine that we are just stuck with

04:19:34.000 --> 04:19:36.616
the law. We have to follow the planning

04:19:36.640 --> 04:19:39.335
law and we have to note that we can't

04:19:39.359 --> 04:19:42.359
change that and um we have there are

04:19:44.080 --> 04:19:47.016
nuances of the legal advice. I agree. My

04:19:47.040 --> 04:19:49.415
interpretation of it is the same as the

04:19:49.439 --> 04:19:52.439
star that we need to reject the 40ear

04:19:53.920 --> 04:19:56.295
length way too long. It's completely

04:19:56.319 --> 04:19:59.319
different application. There are also 

04:19:59.760 --> 04:20:02.375
applications within that to change the

04:20:02.399 --> 04:20:04.536
different where they're going to mine

04:20:04.560 --> 04:20:05.816
and where they're not going to mine and

04:20:05.840 --> 04:20:08.056
the extraction amount. So I think the

04:20:08.080 --> 04:20:11.080
ball goes back to the proponent, they

04:20:11.120 --> 04:20:14.120
come back to us and then  there may

04:20:14.319 --> 04:20:16.135
well be a middle ground that can be

04:20:16.159 --> 04:20:19.159
sorted out between the players.

04:20:19.520 --> 04:20:20.455
So thank you.

04:20:20.479 --> 04:20:22.056
Thank you.

04:20:22.080 --> 04:20:25.080
Yeah. Can I just get a point?

04:20:25.760 --> 04:20:27.415
Sorry.

04:20:27.439 --> 04:20:30.056
We had the right reply. I just listen.

04:20:30.080 --> 04:20:33.080
All those in favor,

04:20:33.199 --> 04:20:33.976
hands up.

04:20:34.000 --> 04:20:34.856
For the recommendation.

04:20:34.880 --> 04:20:36.616
Of the recommendation.

04:20:36.640 --> 04:20:38.455
Councelor Summers, Councelor Higgins,

04:20:38.479 --> 04:20:41.415
Councelor Stewart, Councelor Hopkins,

04:20:41.439 --> 04:20:44.439
Councelor Davis, Councelor Williamson,

04:20:45.520 --> 04:20:47.496
sorry, Councelor Williamson, and

04:20:47.520 --> 04:20:50.520
Councelor Hannah. All those against.

04:20:50.880 --> 04:20:53.656
Councelor Elliot, Councelor Rose,

04:20:53.680 --> 04:20:56.616
Councelor Rooney, Councelor Baylor.

04:20:56.640 --> 04:20:58.135
Carried.

04:20:58.159 --> 04:20:59.656
All right, councils, we're moving on.

04:20:59.680 --> 04:21:02.215
, I'm going to move on to the MEL

04:21:02.239 --> 04:21:05.239
minute councilors of 12.1.

04:21:12.479 --> 04:21:15.479
Um, and I do want to add one line to it.

04:21:18.960 --> 04:21:21.736
Do I need a second?

04:21:21.760 --> 04:21:24.760
Okay.

04:21:25.600 --> 04:21:27.576
Question. Um, are you allowed to just

04:21:27.600 --> 04:21:29.016
bring it forward like that or should you

04:21:29.040 --> 04:21:30.056
have done it at the beginning of the

04:21:30.080 --> 04:21:30.295
meeting?

04:21:30.319 --> 04:21:31.896
No, I can bring it anytime I like to in

04:21:31.920 --> 04:21:34.920
a mal minute.

04:21:37.840 --> 04:21:39.576
Yeah, that

04:21:39.600 --> 04:21:42.600
 councilors, , the meal minute is on

04:21:42.800 --> 04:21:45.096
the board. , now the reason why I'm

04:21:45.120 --> 04:21:46.696
bringing this mer minute is to wave the

04:21:46.720 --> 04:21:48.295
entrance fees for the community pools at

04:21:48.319 --> 04:21:51.175
Anami and Beridal until the bomber and

04:21:51.199 --> 04:21:54.199
Kuma pools are reopen to the public. The

04:21:54.319 --> 04:21:55.576
reason for this, I've had a lot of

04:21:55.600 --> 04:21:57.736
community members from Kuma and also

04:21:57.760 --> 04:22:00.760
Bombala contact me about  the pools

04:22:00.960 --> 04:22:03.656
not opening  and their travel time to

04:22:03.680 --> 04:22:06.680
get to the the Baridal and the pool from

04:22:07.600 --> 04:22:10.600
either Bombala or Kuma or the Adami. Um

04:22:11.199 --> 04:22:14.056
I you know I do see the community's

04:22:14.080 --> 04:22:15.816
frustration in this that the pools are

04:22:15.840 --> 04:22:17.415
not going to be open for all the school

04:22:17.439 --> 04:22:19.816
kids and all the all the people. Um but

04:22:19.840 --> 04:22:21.335
you know it is something that has

04:22:21.359 --> 04:22:23.415
happened. Um, and I think we need to,

04:22:23.439 --> 04:22:25.335
you know, support the community where we

04:22:25.359 --> 04:22:28.359
can. , this is a, you know, thing that

04:22:29.040 --> 04:22:31.255
we're not going to lose any, , much

04:22:31.279 --> 04:22:32.696
money on because the fact being that the

04:22:32.720 --> 04:22:34.856
Kumapool and the Bomba pool, we we

04:22:34.880 --> 04:22:36.455
actually don't run ourselves anyway. So,

04:22:36.479 --> 04:22:37.736
those people we wouldn't receive the

04:22:37.760 --> 04:22:40.455
money for. U, but it allows the kids to

04:22:40.479 --> 04:22:42.135
be able to swim over the school holidays

04:22:42.159 --> 04:22:44.375
and their parents can drive them from

04:22:44.399 --> 04:22:47.399
Bombala or Kuma um, to these pools that

04:22:48.000 --> 04:22:49.736
I've been asked for. The other thing I'

04:22:49.760 --> 04:22:51.976
I've been asked for is  if the

04:22:52.000 --> 04:22:53.656
carnivals if the pools are not open by

04:22:53.680 --> 04:22:56.680
February um by the schools that um if I

04:22:57.199 --> 04:22:59.255
can put a point B on there now is that

04:22:59.279 --> 04:23:02.215
we pay for some buses to get the kids

04:23:02.239 --> 04:23:05.239
from Bombala  to Baridal and also Kuma

04:23:05.920 --> 04:23:08.616
to Baridal.

04:23:08.640 --> 04:23:11.640
What about ones from Brendo in Mikgo?

04:23:12.560 --> 04:23:15.560
If they're using the Kuma pool then yes.

04:23:16.319 --> 04:23:18.455
Yeah. Yeah. If they're going to be using

04:23:18.479 --> 04:23:21.096
the Kimble, then yes, 100%.

04:23:21.120 --> 04:23:22.856
Can I speak against your Is this a

04:23:22.880 --> 04:23:23.896
motion that you're putting?

04:23:23.920 --> 04:23:25.576
Yeah. Yeah.

04:23:25.600 --> 04:23:27.576
It'll be It'll be um discussed in a

04:23:27.600 --> 04:23:30.600
second. Um

04:23:30.720 --> 04:23:31.816
question.

04:23:31.840 --> 04:23:34.840
Yes.

04:23:38.399 --> 04:23:41.335
Sorry, Mr. Mayor. I had asked  Miss

04:23:41.359 --> 04:23:42.056
Boo.

04:23:42.080 --> 04:23:45.080
Yeah. who advis us about that because I

04:23:45.199 --> 04:23:48.199
understood the current pool

04:23:48.560 --> 04:23:50.536
kept all the takings.

04:23:50.560 --> 04:23:52.215
Oh, when the pool's open. Yeah, that's

04:23:52.239 --> 04:23:52.856
correct. Yeah.

04:23:52.880 --> 04:23:54.295
So, if it's not open,

04:23:54.319 --> 04:23:54.776
yeah,

04:23:54.800 --> 04:23:57.016
what's our obligation to pay down?

04:23:57.040 --> 04:23:58.295
We're still looking at that at the

04:23:58.319 --> 04:24:00.295
moment. Um, is my understanding. I

04:24:00.319 --> 04:24:02.135
haven't got the answer to that. , this

04:24:02.159 --> 04:24:03.415
is just a backup. This is what the

04:24:03.439 --> 04:24:04.696
committee's asked for and I just, you

04:24:04.720 --> 04:24:06.215
know, thought I'll support it. But, um,

04:24:06.239 --> 04:24:06.856
yeah,

04:24:06.880 --> 04:24:08.135
but I'm just trying to understand the

04:24:08.159 --> 04:24:11.159
financial situation.  that the the

04:24:11.680 --> 04:24:13.335
we might have to pay them anyhow.

04:24:13.359 --> 04:24:16.359
Question in that  my understanding is

04:24:16.399 --> 04:24:19.096
that the operator of the Bombala pool

04:24:19.120 --> 04:24:21.335
does not keep the gate fee. They remit

04:24:21.359 --> 04:24:23.175
it to us and we pay them to manage the

04:24:23.199 --> 04:24:26.199
pool. So the financial implications

04:24:27.680 --> 04:24:30.056
are more significant than we realize in

04:24:30.080 --> 04:24:33.080
that we will likely retain the right the

04:24:34.159 --> 04:24:36.056
the obligation to pay the bombal

04:24:36.080 --> 04:24:39.080
operator with no entry as per his

04:24:39.359 --> 04:24:41.656
contract because he doesn't keep the

04:24:41.680 --> 04:24:43.016
gate fee.

04:24:43.040 --> 04:24:44.536
Should we be discussing individual

04:24:44.560 --> 04:24:45.255
contracts?

04:24:45.279 --> 04:24:46.616
We'll speak to the motion that we got in

04:24:46.640 --> 04:24:48.295
front of us today.

04:24:48.319 --> 04:24:49.496
We'll stick to the motion that's

04:24:49.520 --> 04:24:51.096
councelors.

04:24:51.120 --> 04:24:52.616
Did you have another question? But no,

04:24:52.640 --> 04:24:54.455
my question was the budgetary impact.

04:24:54.479 --> 04:24:55.896
Yeah. Understand it's not worked out

04:24:55.920 --> 04:24:56.215
yet.

04:24:56.239 --> 04:24:57.576
It hasn't been worked out yet. This is

04:24:57.600 --> 04:24:59.175
just a you know to get the staff going

04:24:59.199 --> 04:25:01.335
on it except for the pools.  my

04:25:01.359 --> 04:25:03.255
understanding  actually I did bring

04:25:03.279 --> 04:25:04.776
something. Give me two seconds. I'll

04:25:04.800 --> 04:25:07.736
find it and I'll come back down.

04:25:07.760 --> 04:25:10.696
M a number of questions on the motion.

04:25:10.720 --> 04:25:12.856
Yes.

04:25:12.880 --> 04:25:15.880
Sure. Um, so is it the intent of the

04:25:16.319 --> 04:25:18.776
motion that

04:25:18.800 --> 04:25:21.335
anyone in the SH would get access to

04:25:21.359 --> 04:25:24.359
those pools or is it for free or is it

04:25:25.760 --> 04:25:28.135
only those that are impacted by the

04:25:28.159 --> 04:25:30.215
disruption? So for example,

04:25:30.239 --> 04:25:32.536
it would be everybody that

04:25:32.560 --> 04:25:35.560
yes proposing you would get free impact

04:25:36.000 --> 04:25:36.936
free.

04:25:36.960 --> 04:25:39.335
Yes, I am.

04:25:39.359 --> 04:25:39.816
Yeah.

04:25:39.840 --> 04:25:41.976
Well, it's just a Well, it's it's a good

04:25:42.000 --> 04:25:43.496
point, but how do you then determine

04:25:43.520 --> 04:25:45.175
where you live?

04:25:45.199 --> 04:25:48.056
You know, so just to clarify the  the

04:25:48.080 --> 04:25:51.080
total cost for an Amina B for 20 the

04:25:51.760 --> 04:25:54.616
income that we got  for January, just

04:25:54.640 --> 04:25:57.640
talking about January was $794 last

04:25:57.840 --> 04:25:59.816
year.

04:25:59.840 --> 04:26:01.335
So, we're not talking thousands of

04:26:01.359 --> 04:26:04.359
dollars.  for the bomb  sorry, you

04:26:04.720 --> 04:26:06.215
are right. the Bomba pool, we did earn

04:26:06.239 --> 04:26:09.239
$1,200, $1,250 for January.  the year

04:26:10.319 --> 04:26:12.616
before that, 2324.

04:26:12.640 --> 04:26:13.976
 must have been an odd year because we

04:26:14.000 --> 04:26:17.000
only at $72. Um

04:26:17.520 --> 04:26:20.520
Baritout we earned in January $2,985.

04:26:21.680 --> 04:26:23.816
So if you put the pools together that we

04:26:23.840 --> 04:26:26.536
earned money on for January,  it was

04:26:26.560 --> 04:26:28.856
$5,380.

04:26:28.880 --> 04:26:31.880
Sorry, let me say that again. $5,38.72

04:26:34.159 --> 04:26:35.576
that we earned for the month of January

04:26:35.600 --> 04:26:38.600
last financial year.

04:26:40.319 --> 04:26:43.319
So question the question yes

04:26:43.680 --> 04:26:46.455
those figures are are guiding but if we

04:26:46.479 --> 04:26:49.255
have an obligation

04:26:49.279 --> 04:26:52.279
um to pay the operators of the pool and

04:26:53.680 --> 04:26:56.295
we give it to everybody for free but

04:26:56.319 --> 04:26:57.896
they were originally keeping the gate

04:26:57.920 --> 04:26:59.816
fees. If they have 10,000 people come

04:26:59.840 --> 04:27:01.335
through the pool, they're going to

04:27:01.359 --> 04:27:03.576
charge us 10,000 gate fees because our

04:27:03.600 --> 04:27:06.056
contract is that they would normally

04:27:06.080 --> 04:27:07.496
keep the gate fee, but if there's no

04:27:07.520 --> 04:27:09.016
gate fee because we made it free, we

04:27:09.040 --> 04:27:10.375
have to compensate them for the lost

04:27:10.399 --> 04:27:12.215
gate fee and we then have no control

04:27:12.239 --> 04:27:13.415
over the number of people who are going

04:27:13.439 --> 04:27:14.536
to the pool.

04:27:14.560 --> 04:27:16.455
Sorry, we're talking about anime and

04:27:16.479 --> 04:27:19.479
bomba. So, so explain it's the pool

04:27:20.479 --> 04:27:21.175
opens up.

04:27:21.199 --> 04:27:22.936
So, the my understanding is the kuma

04:27:22.960 --> 04:27:24.295
pool operator has been given the

04:27:24.319 --> 04:27:27.175
anominity pool in lie of the kuma pool.

04:27:27.199 --> 04:27:29.335
Oh. Oh, no. No, not to run. No, that's

04:27:29.359 --> 04:27:30.616
incorrect.

04:27:30.640 --> 04:27:33.255
That's Sorry, that's two. Oh, do you

04:27:33.279 --> 04:27:34.215
want to clarify that? They're not

04:27:34.239 --> 04:27:34.776
earning

04:27:34.800 --> 04:27:37.800
you. Um, the Kuma pool operator is

04:27:38.640 --> 04:27:41.255
providing lifeguards to over a period

04:27:41.279 --> 04:27:44.279
where we were short on staff. Um, all

04:27:44.479 --> 04:27:47.096
income and entry fees would still be

04:27:47.120 --> 04:27:48.455
coming to council.

04:27:48.479 --> 04:27:50.135
Okay.

04:27:50.159 --> 04:27:52.455
And in theory, if the if you're in

04:27:52.479 --> 04:27:54.616
Ginderbine and you decide you didn't

04:27:54.640 --> 04:27:57.255
want to pay full fees and you go to

04:27:57.279 --> 04:28:00.279
Paridal, that's what I really drive down

04:28:00.399 --> 04:28:01.415
the road.

04:28:01.439 --> 04:28:01.976
Yeah.

04:28:02.000 --> 04:28:03.415
Yeah.

04:28:03.439 --> 04:28:05.096
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you're looking at

04:28:05.120 --> 04:28:06.455
the only reason I bought this is because

04:28:06.479 --> 04:28:09.415
the schools have asked me to to to

04:28:09.439 --> 04:28:11.496
provide this and a number of people in

04:28:11.520 --> 04:28:13.816
Bombala when I was in Bombala last come

04:28:13.840 --> 04:28:16.135
to me um and one in front of councelor

04:28:16.159 --> 04:28:18.375
Stewart too. So if you know, can we get

04:28:18.399 --> 04:28:21.399
access to the the Baron pool for free?

04:28:21.600 --> 04:28:23.096
You know, and I just thought that was a

04:28:23.120 --> 04:28:24.295
reasonable thing that they're traveling

04:28:24.319 --> 04:28:24.776
now.

04:28:24.800 --> 04:28:25.976
I'm not for it.

04:28:26.000 --> 04:28:27.175
No, that's understandable. I'm not

04:28:27.199 --> 04:28:29.415
saying you have to be for it.

04:28:29.439 --> 04:28:31.976
 question then, Mr. Mayor. Logically,

04:28:32.000 --> 04:28:34.375
is it the community that wants free or

04:28:34.399 --> 04:28:36.215
is the schools that want the assistance?

04:28:36.239 --> 04:28:38.215
It's both. I mean, well, the community

04:28:38.239 --> 04:28:39.816
is the school too, councelor.

04:28:39.840 --> 04:28:40.536
No, it's not.

04:28:40.560 --> 04:28:42.536
It is. Do your kids. The kids are not

04:28:42.560 --> 04:28:43.175
your kids.

04:28:43.199 --> 04:28:45.255
My kids don't go to school. So, kids go

04:28:45.279 --> 04:28:47.415
to school. Parents pay a lot of money.

04:28:47.439 --> 04:28:49.016
It costs a lot of money to send these

04:28:49.040 --> 04:28:51.415
kids to Beridal.  the pools are not

04:28:51.439 --> 04:28:53.576
open as a suggestion. Councilors don't

04:28:53.600 --> 04:28:54.536
want to do it. I can just go back to

04:28:54.560 --> 04:28:55.816
schools and say that no then the cost

04:28:55.840 --> 04:28:57.736
will then have to go back onto the the

04:28:57.760 --> 04:28:58.856
parents. That's it.

04:28:58.880 --> 04:29:01.255
Mr. May, can I suggest we go into

04:29:01.279 --> 04:29:03.415
committee as a whole?

04:29:03.439 --> 04:29:04.536
Or if you want to go into committee as a

04:29:04.560 --> 04:29:07.096
whole second. Thank you. All those in

04:29:07.120 --> 04:29:09.016
favor to go on committee of a whole.

04:29:09.040 --> 04:29:10.056
Thank you.

04:29:10.080 --> 04:29:11.656
Councelor, sorry. Sorry. Council's hands

04:29:11.680 --> 04:29:13.096
up because there's a few that councelor

04:29:13.120 --> 04:29:14.375
Stewart, councelor Hopkins, councelor

04:29:14.399 --> 04:29:17.399
Elliot, councelor Rose, councelor ,

04:29:17.439 --> 04:29:19.816
councelor Williamson, councelor Hannah,

04:29:19.840 --> 04:29:22.776
all those against. Councelor Summers,

04:29:22.800 --> 04:29:25.656
councelor Rooney, councelor Oh, Higgins,

04:29:25.680 --> 04:29:28.680
sorry, and councelor Davos.

04:29:29.760 --> 04:29:31.816
Councelor Higgins, Council Summers, not

04:29:31.840 --> 04:29:34.215
here. All right, we're in committee. Mr.

04:29:34.239 --> 04:29:37.096
Mayor, I I'm quite concerned about the

04:29:37.120 --> 04:29:40.120
equity of this because I I I appreciate

04:29:40.239 --> 04:29:43.239
why you proposed it. Um, but I think

04:29:43.680 --> 04:29:45.496
what it's going to do is it's going to

04:29:45.520 --> 04:29:48.520
provide free access to the pools to the

04:29:48.800 --> 04:29:51.255
people who live nearby who aren't

04:29:51.279 --> 04:29:54.279
actually impacted by the issue in the

04:29:54.319 --> 04:29:57.319
other pools. Not much. I I I think for

04:29:58.800 --> 04:30:01.800
the schools I think we we could offer to

04:30:02.239 --> 04:30:05.096
provide buses for them for those that

04:30:05.120 --> 04:30:07.656
would have come to K and go to Verid. I

04:30:07.680 --> 04:30:10.680
think that would be great. Um but in in

04:30:11.359 --> 04:30:13.496
terms of providing free access, I think

04:30:13.520 --> 04:30:16.215
it would be better

04:30:16.239 --> 04:30:19.239
if we were to say next summer the Kath

04:30:20.319 --> 04:30:22.696
will be free,

04:30:22.720 --> 04:30:24.616
right? Rather than make it this summer.

04:30:24.640 --> 04:30:26.616
That way we're not providing, you know,

04:30:26.640 --> 04:30:29.640
an inequitable situation where the

04:30:29.680 --> 04:30:32.680
people local to the adamidity pool get a

04:30:33.120 --> 04:30:35.576
a free access when they're not impacted

04:30:35.600 --> 04:30:37.816
by the closure of the cur. I

04:30:37.840 --> 04:30:40.056
think I I can see where you're going

04:30:40.080 --> 04:30:42.375
with that. But I think my concern with

04:30:42.399 --> 04:30:44.776
offering that alternative solution would

04:30:44.800 --> 04:30:46.856
be that we've got people who are being

04:30:46.880 --> 04:30:49.255
impacted now because the pools are not

04:30:49.279 --> 04:30:51.415
going to be open. So the people who live

04:30:51.439 --> 04:30:52.856
in Bombala are going to have to be

04:30:52.880 --> 04:30:54.375
inconvenience because they'll have to

04:30:54.399 --> 04:30:56.455
drive to Beridal and people living in

04:30:56.479 --> 04:30:58.215
Kuma have to drive to Beridal. So

04:30:58.239 --> 04:30:59.896
they're sort of being inconvenience. So

04:30:59.920 --> 04:31:01.496
the flip side to that inconvenience is

04:31:01.520 --> 04:31:03.576
to give them free entry. If you were to

04:31:03.600 --> 04:31:04.936
say look it's going to be a really crap

04:31:04.960 --> 04:31:06.135
year this year. Sorry you're getting

04:31:06.159 --> 04:31:08.056
nothing but you get free entry next year

04:31:08.080 --> 04:31:09.736
to your local pool. I'm not too sure how

04:31:09.760 --> 04:31:11.576
that alleviates the inconvenience for

04:31:11.600 --> 04:31:12.056
this.

04:31:12.080 --> 04:31:14.375
It might not but it also doesn't create

04:31:14.399 --> 04:31:16.135
the inequity. You could always argue

04:31:16.159 --> 04:31:18.536
it's if it's very popular, the Beridale

04:31:18.560 --> 04:31:20.455
pool is going to be very crowded

04:31:20.479 --> 04:31:23.096
and you might as well you're helping if

04:31:23.120 --> 04:31:26.120
you make it free in a crowded situation

04:31:26.479 --> 04:31:29.016
which wouldn't be that way.

04:31:29.040 --> 04:31:30.616
Councelor Stewart has hand up and

04:31:30.640 --> 04:31:31.976
councelor Rose. Councelor Stewart.

04:31:32.000 --> 04:31:34.295
Yeah. Um yeah, I'm not supportive of

04:31:34.319 --> 04:31:37.319
this at all. Oh, Mr. Mayor. Um

04:31:39.520 --> 04:31:42.520
just just on the basis that

04:31:42.560 --> 04:31:45.096
probably one of the biggest challenges

04:31:45.120 --> 04:31:47.816
council have is keeping these pools

04:31:47.840 --> 04:31:50.536
going for these these community but you

04:31:50.560 --> 04:31:52.536
look at the figures on what the pools

04:31:52.560 --> 04:31:55.496
cost us per year.

04:31:55.520 --> 04:31:58.520
Now we were fortunate enough to gain

04:31:59.680 --> 04:32:02.455
substantial money to do upgrades to both

04:32:02.479 --> 04:32:05.479
the Kuma and the Bomba pool. Significant

04:32:06.479 --> 04:32:09.016
amount of money, $2 million each or a

04:32:09.040 --> 04:32:11.175
bit over.

04:32:11.199 --> 04:32:13.255
Now it was always going to be

04:32:13.279 --> 04:32:14.936
problematic whether we could get that

04:32:14.960 --> 04:32:17.960
work done outside the swimming seas when

04:32:18.880 --> 04:32:21.816
we were looking for the work to be done.

04:32:21.840 --> 04:32:24.840
But the benefit of of of getting these

04:32:25.760 --> 04:32:28.760
pools brought up to to a higher standard

04:32:29.920 --> 04:32:32.375
where they're all aged. All the pools we

04:32:32.399 --> 04:32:35.399
got in the area aged

04:32:35.760 --> 04:32:38.295
is great. We'll be good. It will give a

04:32:38.319 --> 04:32:41.096
lot lot longer lifetime to those pools

04:32:41.120 --> 04:32:43.816
in for those communities in the future.

04:32:43.840 --> 04:32:45.656
Surely

04:32:45.680 --> 04:32:48.680
the compensation of missing out by a few

04:32:48.960 --> 04:32:51.896
months swimming with those community

04:32:51.920 --> 04:32:54.696
doesn't deserve council be spending

04:32:54.720 --> 04:32:57.720
substantial money subsidizing it because

04:32:58.080 --> 04:33:00.215
the benefit's going to be greater in the

04:33:00.239 --> 04:33:03.239
future. So that's why I I I only had one

04:33:05.199 --> 04:33:08.199
or two people come to me about the pool.

04:33:08.639 --> 04:33:11.639
I put that argument to them. Um that's

04:33:12.160 --> 04:33:14.136
you know it's probably not going to be a

04:33:14.160 --> 04:33:16.855
popular thing but it's a responsible

04:33:16.879 --> 04:33:19.879
decision not to be subsidi in my view

04:33:21.600 --> 04:33:24.216
with cash wrapped we're always talking

04:33:24.240 --> 04:33:27.240
about our money but there is other thing

04:33:28.000 --> 04:33:31.000
we got a lot lot of things to do this is

04:33:31.359 --> 04:33:34.359
going to be a benefit to those two pools

04:33:35.039 --> 04:33:36.855
in the future

04:33:36.879 --> 04:33:38.935
surely missing out on a couple of months

04:33:38.959 --> 04:33:40.775
swimming

04:33:40.799 --> 04:33:43.799
is is going to to off the upgrades to

04:33:44.799 --> 04:33:46.775
those pools going to offset that that

04:33:46.799 --> 04:33:49.656
situation. I would have to be a little

04:33:49.680 --> 04:33:52.680
bit critical of how from how it panned

04:33:53.760 --> 04:33:56.760
out but I the staff have tried their

04:33:58.080 --> 04:34:01.080
best to to um to accommodate it. It's a

04:34:01.840 --> 04:34:04.775
big job. It's a, as I said, a couple of

04:34:04.799 --> 04:34:07.576
million dollar job in both pools,

04:34:07.600 --> 04:34:09.255
ripping out all the old infrastructure

04:34:09.279 --> 04:34:12.279
and replacing. It's It is a big job. So,

04:34:12.959 --> 04:34:15.959
I think we we being responsible,

04:34:17.840 --> 04:34:20.840
Shay, why unfortunately if those people

04:34:22.160 --> 04:34:25.160
want to get the to go swimming at the

04:34:25.359 --> 04:34:27.976
pool or train or something, well, that's

04:34:28.000 --> 04:34:30.136
good. Let them do. But our

04:34:30.160 --> 04:34:33.160
responsibility is to the to to look

04:34:33.199 --> 04:34:35.576
after and deliver everything to the

04:34:35.600 --> 04:34:38.456
community the best we can and to getting

04:34:38.480 --> 04:34:40.296
upgrades

04:34:40.320 --> 04:34:42.456
and as long as they are going to be

04:34:42.480 --> 04:34:44.615
beneficial to those two pools for a long

04:34:44.639 --> 04:34:46.775
time to come. I think that little bit of

04:34:46.799 --> 04:34:49.576
pain that the Kuma and Bomba kids are

04:34:49.600 --> 04:34:52.296
missing out on um should not have to be

04:34:52.320 --> 04:34:54.935
subsidized by council.

04:34:54.959 --> 04:34:57.255
Thank you councelor Rose.

04:34:57.279 --> 04:35:00.216
Now, you're a very clever financial guy.

04:35:00.240 --> 04:35:03.240
So, what do you estimate the cost of the

04:35:04.719 --> 04:35:06.615
this whole proposal is?

04:35:06.639 --> 04:35:08.136
Well,

04:35:08.160 --> 04:35:10.537
it was $5,000 for the entrance, but I I

04:35:10.561 --> 04:35:13.015
do take Councelor Williamson's point to,

04:35:13.039 --> 04:35:14.056
you know, you'd want to wave the

04:35:14.080 --> 04:35:15.496
entrances, like not wave the entrance.

04:35:15.520 --> 04:35:18.056
That's fine. I think the buses the buses

04:35:18.080 --> 04:35:20.216
are um $600 a bus,

04:35:20.240 --> 04:35:21.095
right?

04:35:21.119 --> 04:35:22.935
So, most schools need around about two

04:35:22.959 --> 04:35:23.736
buses,

04:35:23.760 --> 04:35:25.816
right? So how many times

04:35:25.840 --> 04:35:27.015
be happy with the bus?

04:35:27.039 --> 04:35:27.335
Yeah,

04:35:27.359 --> 04:35:29.656
we might be up for the buses if they

04:35:29.680 --> 04:35:30.216
finish

04:35:30.240 --> 04:35:32.296
and if they finish on time.

04:35:32.320 --> 04:35:33.816
School holidays are about to start. So

04:35:33.840 --> 04:35:34.056
this

04:35:34.080 --> 04:35:35.816
Well, you Yeah, you won't get buses over

04:35:35.840 --> 04:35:36.695
school holidays.

04:35:36.719 --> 04:35:39.095
Sorry, I was only talking buses for

04:35:39.119 --> 04:35:40.775
So you're probably looking at about 10

04:35:40.799 --> 04:35:43.799
look 10 grand potentially.

04:35:45.039 --> 04:35:47.255
Yeah.

04:35:47.279 --> 04:35:49.496
So it is in the budget. So is is that an

04:35:49.520 --> 04:35:52.520
issue for us?  when I spoke to  the

04:35:53.920 --> 04:35:56.537
CEO  and Mr. Renie, they thought that

04:35:56.561 --> 04:35:58.136
it would be covered under the budget and

04:35:58.160 --> 04:36:00.855
wouldn't have an issue with it.

04:36:00.879 --> 04:36:03.879
It's just like on superanuation.

04:36:04.561 --> 04:36:07.561
How's the um I support the idea of the

04:36:08.080 --> 04:36:11.080
buses because at the worst um

04:36:11.279 --> 04:36:13.415
circumstance it's only a few schools who

04:36:13.439 --> 04:36:16.439
were already going to need to use buses.

04:36:16.719 --> 04:36:18.615
So the schools that are actually

04:36:18.639 --> 04:36:20.695
inconvenienced is a minimal number. So

04:36:20.719 --> 04:36:23.095
it'll be Kuma needing a bus to go to

04:36:23.119 --> 04:36:25.255
Beridal or Amini but for example the

04:36:25.279 --> 04:36:27.335
Nimitabel school has to get a bus to

04:36:27.359 --> 04:36:29.095
come to the pool and they have usually

04:36:29.119 --> 04:36:31.415
one swimming carnival so it's not so

04:36:31.439 --> 04:36:33.335
significant um

04:36:33.359 --> 04:36:36.359
it must just cost him a little bit more

04:36:36.959 --> 04:36:38.537
which we can

04:36:38.561 --> 04:36:40.615
and so we can

04:36:40.639 --> 04:36:43.639
we can um deal with that. Is it a

04:36:43.760 --> 04:36:46.760
possibility that we might make a

04:36:48.320 --> 04:36:50.056
a thing where people in Bombay and

04:36:50.080 --> 04:36:53.080
people in Kuma drop into the office and

04:36:53.920 --> 04:36:55.816
you get a you say, "Yep, my family, you

04:36:55.840 --> 04:36:58.216
got this many kids. We're going out to

04:36:58.240 --> 04:36:59.496
in a minute or we're going to go to

04:36:59.520 --> 04:37:02.456
Burdale." We could give them a token or

04:37:02.480 --> 04:37:03.576
a piece of paper or something

04:37:03.600 --> 04:37:05.175
acknowledged. You can have free entry

04:37:05.199 --> 04:37:07.496
because you've had to drive. Point is,

04:37:07.520 --> 04:37:09.415
if we make a free entry and suddenly we

04:37:09.439 --> 04:37:11.976
have 500 kids at the pool, then the

04:37:12.000 --> 04:37:13.976
locals who normally go to the pool are

04:37:14.000 --> 04:37:15.255
not going to be happy and they're going

04:37:15.279 --> 04:37:16.935
to hate us for filling up their pool

04:37:16.959 --> 04:37:19.015
with people and we're going to need more

04:37:19.039 --> 04:37:20.855
chlorine and all this sort of thing. So,

04:37:20.879 --> 04:37:23.879
could we give a note because we we do

04:37:24.400 --> 04:37:26.456
use notes at school. We can't prove our

04:37:26.480 --> 04:37:27.976
identity of the kids at the gate because

04:37:28.000 --> 04:37:30.695
no kids have ID. You could drop into the

04:37:30.719 --> 04:37:32.216
office,

04:37:32.240 --> 04:37:33.896
grab something. Your family has a

04:37:33.920 --> 04:37:35.896
ticket. I'm from Kuma. come present my

04:37:35.920 --> 04:37:37.976
ticket at the pool. It's a little bit

04:37:38.000 --> 04:37:40.056
more discriminatory and it's not a

04:37:40.080 --> 04:37:42.376
free-for-all, but then anyone that's

04:37:42.400 --> 04:37:43.896
going to make the choice to drive,

04:37:43.920 --> 04:37:45.095
they're going to choose to go to the

04:37:45.119 --> 04:37:46.056
beach or they're going to choose to go

04:37:46.080 --> 04:37:47.255
to the pool or going to choose to go to

04:37:47.279 --> 04:37:47.896
the river.

04:37:47.920 --> 04:37:49.015
Driving there, I presume there'd be a

04:37:49.039 --> 04:37:50.855
driver's license.

04:37:50.879 --> 04:37:52.056
You probably wouldn't need to. You'd

04:37:52.080 --> 04:37:53.656
just show your driver's license. Kids

04:37:53.680 --> 04:37:54.935
can't go on their own anyways.

04:37:54.959 --> 04:37:56.376
That's right. So, I think there are ways

04:37:56.400 --> 04:37:57.976
that we can do it,

04:37:58.000 --> 04:38:01.000
but it's more of a gratuitity. If you're

04:38:01.359 --> 04:38:03.175
from Kuma, yeah, you can come in for

04:38:03.199 --> 04:38:05.656
free. There's a bit of sleepage, but

04:38:05.680 --> 04:38:08.680
that way we're not seeing a massive

04:38:08.879 --> 04:38:11.656
influx of everybody in Burdale going

04:38:11.680 --> 04:38:13.015
every day.

04:38:13.039 --> 04:38:16.039
Millie, I'm not too sure that I would be

04:38:16.240 --> 04:38:17.255
sort of

04:38:17.279 --> 04:38:19.015
I I don't I don't see that there's going

04:38:19.039 --> 04:38:20.537
to be 50 million people going into the

04:38:20.561 --> 04:38:22.456
pool because it's now free. It's a $5

04:38:22.480 --> 04:38:24.216
entry or $7 entry, whatever it is

04:38:24.240 --> 04:38:25.736
anyway. So, I don't think free entry

04:38:25.760 --> 04:38:28.136
would make me as a bar resident go there

04:38:28.160 --> 04:38:29.896
every single day because you think it's

04:38:29.920 --> 04:38:32.920
free. So, so I I really see this as not

04:38:33.520 --> 04:38:36.520
so much a um an extra lot of money. I

04:38:36.561 --> 04:38:37.816
think there's been huge community

04:38:37.840 --> 04:38:39.816
backlash about this and I think it's a

04:38:39.840 --> 04:38:41.736
really nice gesture and we're here for

04:38:41.760 --> 04:38:43.896
the community at the end of the day. I

04:38:43.920 --> 04:38:46.855
don't believe that many many people are

04:38:46.879 --> 04:38:48.456
going to take up the offer, but I

04:38:48.480 --> 04:38:50.615
believe it's really important for us as

04:38:50.639 --> 04:38:52.456
a council to put it out there to say,

04:38:52.480 --> 04:38:55.255
"Hey, as councelor Stewart said, we

04:38:55.279 --> 04:38:56.695
never knew exactly what the timings were

04:38:56.719 --> 04:38:58.935
going to be. It's a real bummer that

04:38:58.959 --> 04:39:00.456
those two pools are taking longer than

04:39:00.480 --> 04:39:01.976
what we had thought. We've lost a couple

04:39:02.000 --> 04:39:03.255
of months of the season and

04:39:03.279 --> 04:39:04.695
unfortunately the weather is hotter than

04:39:04.719 --> 04:39:06.855
it usually is. So that's a real bummer.

04:39:06.879 --> 04:39:09.335
How about we give this present to the

04:39:09.359 --> 04:39:11.015
people who are really impacted.

04:39:11.039 --> 04:39:12.537
Everybody's going to say, "Hey, that's

04:39:12.561 --> 04:39:14.855
really great." Only probably 20 to 30%

04:39:14.879 --> 04:39:16.456
of the people who are eligible, you

04:39:16.480 --> 04:39:17.896
know, who are locals and go, "Oh, sweet.

04:39:17.920 --> 04:39:19.335
I'll drive." are actually going to sort

04:39:19.359 --> 04:39:21.175
of take up the offer. But I think it's a

04:39:21.199 --> 04:39:23.415
really nice thing to to give back to the

04:39:23.439 --> 04:39:26.136
community.

04:39:26.160 --> 04:39:28.136
Thanks, councelor. Councelor, sorry, I

04:39:28.160 --> 04:39:29.496
have a hand up here. Councelor,

04:39:29.520 --> 04:39:31.175
just a question following up from um

04:39:31.199 --> 04:39:34.199
councelor um

04:39:38.958 --> 04:39:41.416
if if there is if there is a large

04:39:41.440 --> 04:39:43.576
influx and we have overcrowding that

04:39:43.600 --> 04:39:45.416
needs to be controlled. Do we need to

04:39:45.440 --> 04:39:46.854
have something in the resolution that

04:39:46.878 --> 04:39:49.878
allows the staff to mediate that?

04:39:51.360 --> 04:39:52.694
We would just deal with those sorts of

04:39:52.718 --> 04:39:54.774
things operation issues.

04:39:54.798 --> 04:39:56.934
Yes. Okay. So that we do anyway.

04:39:56.958 --> 04:39:59.958
Oh, in any event,

04:40:02.160 --> 04:40:04.694
what is pool entry cost? I haven't been

04:40:04.718 --> 04:40:05.416
forever.

04:40:05.440 --> 04:40:07.096
What does it cost for a kid to go into

04:40:07.120 --> 04:40:08.376
the pool?

04:40:08.400 --> 04:40:09.816
So if we $6.

04:40:09.840 --> 04:40:12.840
So if it's $6 and we remove that fee and

04:40:13.360 --> 04:40:15.416
a kid from an animity,

04:40:15.440 --> 04:40:17.576
he would spend his he or she would spend

04:40:17.600 --> 04:40:19.816
his $6 and have a fair bit of time

04:40:19.840 --> 04:40:20.854
there. Mhm.

04:40:20.878 --> 04:40:22.694
If it's free, I'll drop in for half an

04:40:22.718 --> 04:40:24.136
hour today, tomorrow, the next day, the

04:40:24.160 --> 04:40:25.496
next day. We'll drop in for half an hour

04:40:25.520 --> 04:40:28.520
every day. What's the cost? It's $6 a

04:40:28.798 --> 04:40:31.798
time that we've forgiven. Now,

04:40:32.718 --> 04:40:35.496
it actually can be that the locals might

04:40:35.520 --> 04:40:38.520
go to the pool every day for 10 minutes,

04:40:38.560 --> 04:40:39.896
whereas they would normally only go once

04:40:39.920 --> 04:40:42.376
a week. So, we could see a big increase

04:40:42.400 --> 04:40:45.336
in usage of the pool, higher demand on

04:40:45.360 --> 04:40:48.360
lifeguards, more lifeguards, etc. I

04:40:48.560 --> 04:40:51.560
think the pool free entry extended to

04:40:52.160 --> 04:40:54.136
the locals who are not inconvenienced by

04:40:54.160 --> 04:40:55.976
the Kuma pool or the bomba pool not

04:40:56.000 --> 04:40:57.896
being open. It's probably a little bit

04:40:57.920 --> 04:41:00.136
of a step too far. Just done that's more

04:41:00.160 --> 04:41:03.160
work for the staff. Um look I just Yeah,

04:41:03.840 --> 04:41:06.296
we come out of here and just

04:41:06.320 --> 04:41:08.136
one more question before we come out.

04:41:08.160 --> 04:41:08.694
Yes.

04:41:08.718 --> 04:41:11.718
All right. Um which pools allow children

04:41:11.760 --> 04:41:14.760
to go to a pool unattended?

04:41:14.798 --> 04:41:17.798
 no pools. It depends on the age. You

04:41:18.638 --> 04:41:20.694
have to be a certain age without an

04:41:20.718 --> 04:41:21.096
adult.

04:41:21.120 --> 04:41:22.694
You can go to the pool.

04:41:22.718 --> 04:41:24.376
So, so with children popping down for

04:41:24.400 --> 04:41:26.216
half an hour every single day, they'd

04:41:26.240 --> 04:41:27.816
have to have a guardian.

04:41:27.840 --> 04:41:29.416
Correct. Is that right?

04:41:29.440 --> 04:41:31.576
Former council adopted a policy.

04:41:31.600 --> 04:41:32.376
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to work

04:41:32.400 --> 04:41:32.774
out.

04:41:32.798 --> 04:41:35.798
That said you could only access the pool

04:41:36.878 --> 04:41:39.256
as a child if you were 14 years and

04:41:39.280 --> 04:41:39.816
older.

04:41:39.840 --> 04:41:40.614
Yes.

04:41:40.638 --> 04:41:42.136
Ignoring ignoring the fact that

04:41:42.160 --> 04:41:44.216
Australia's youngest Olympic champion

04:41:44.240 --> 04:41:46.456
was 14. Well, they would have had

04:41:46.480 --> 04:41:49.096
someone supervising them.

04:41:49.120 --> 04:41:52.120
But that policy  was adopted.

04:41:52.878 --> 04:41:55.736
Yes, that's what I'm so

04:41:55.760 --> 04:41:58.760
17 18 year olds.

04:41:59.920 --> 04:42:02.920
Even if they can't.

04:42:03.760 --> 04:42:05.496
All right. We got to come out of

04:42:05.520 --> 04:42:06.536
committee. Do I have a second to come

04:42:06.560 --> 04:42:08.456
out of committee? Councelor Hopkins.

04:42:08.480 --> 04:42:09.496
Thank you. All those in favor to come

04:42:09.520 --> 04:42:12.520
out of committee.

04:42:13.280 --> 04:42:14.614
Are you out of committee? Council

04:42:14.638 --> 04:42:15.896
Willington.

04:42:15.920 --> 04:42:17.896
Thanks. Unanimous. Thank you.  we're

04:42:17.920 --> 04:42:19.096
now out of committee. Do I have any

04:42:19.120 --> 04:42:21.976
talking against

04:42:22.000 --> 04:42:23.576
anyone like talk?

04:42:23.600 --> 04:42:26.600
I just have a 5-second against. I think

04:42:27.760 --> 04:42:29.496
I always listen to councelor Stewart.

04:42:29.520 --> 04:42:31.736
He's advocating

04:42:31.760 --> 04:42:33.576
stuff the kids let them wait for the

04:42:33.600 --> 04:42:35.896
pool. It'll do them good. And I think

04:42:35.920 --> 04:42:38.774
there's some v virtue that we

04:42:38.798 --> 04:42:41.416
counel point of order council. I wasn't

04:42:41.440 --> 04:42:43.016
doing that at all. I'm

04:42:43.040 --> 04:42:46.040
not saying I don't sorry

04:42:46.240 --> 04:42:48.056
point of order on that. I'll call a

04:42:48.080 --> 04:42:49.896
point of order on that comment by

04:42:49.920 --> 04:42:52.456
councelor Rose

04:42:52.480 --> 04:42:54.614
Mr. Mayor. I I wasn't making that and

04:42:54.638 --> 04:42:57.176
saying stuff. I was saying that the

04:42:57.200 --> 04:42:59.816
pools are a big challenge financially to

04:42:59.840 --> 04:43:02.614
to councils every year

04:43:02.638 --> 04:43:05.416
and to maintain them. And we if you now

04:43:05.440 --> 04:43:07.816
you want to give everything away.

04:43:07.840 --> 04:43:10.296
Come on. Be a little bit

04:43:10.320 --> 04:43:12.056
He didn't say that. Exactly.

04:43:12.080 --> 04:43:15.080
Yes. So the council I do like that to be

04:43:15.920 --> 04:43:16.136
um

04:43:16.160 --> 04:43:17.256
if you can withdraw that.

04:43:17.280 --> 04:43:19.656
Thanks Mr. Stewart. I just I agree that

04:43:19.680 --> 04:43:21.416
I mischaracterized.

04:43:21.440 --> 04:43:24.056
Yeah. I'm sure it was a shorthand way of

04:43:24.080 --> 04:43:24.774
saying that.

04:43:24.798 --> 04:43:25.816
Yeah. Yeah.

04:43:25.840 --> 04:43:26.536
All right.

04:43:26.560 --> 04:43:28.614
You

04:43:28.638 --> 04:43:30.614
all right?

04:43:30.638 --> 04:43:33.638
You get the heated pool all year round.

04:43:36.080 --> 04:43:37.896
Please

04:43:37.920 --> 04:43:39.896
we've got a four.

04:43:39.920 --> 04:43:41.416
I would like to amend your motion or

04:43:41.440 --> 04:43:43.816
propose a quick amendment. The free

04:43:43.840 --> 04:43:46.376
entry is only to Kerr and Bombala

04:43:46.400 --> 04:43:48.774
residents

04:43:48.798 --> 04:43:50.376
and the mechanics of that can be worked

04:43:50.400 --> 04:43:52.854
out operationally but it could be it's a

04:43:52.878 --> 04:43:55.656
token you your adult holds the hands the

04:43:55.680 --> 04:43:57.736
ID over that's going to the pool.

04:43:57.760 --> 04:43:59.736
It's going to be messy as messy.

04:43:59.760 --> 04:44:01.496
Man's going to be too messy. What

04:44:01.520 --> 04:44:04.520
happens if you're resident of Jer?

04:44:08.080 --> 04:44:09.416
Sorry, I'll just clarify to see how

04:44:09.440 --> 04:44:11.336
messy that's going to be.

04:44:11.360 --> 04:44:13.176
When for the amount of money that we're

04:44:13.200 --> 04:44:15.176
talking about losing in fees, I think

04:44:15.200 --> 04:44:17.576
your administration costs will probably

04:44:17.600 --> 04:44:19.896
be equal or or exceed that just because

04:44:19.920 --> 04:44:22.774
of the processes you go.

04:44:22.798 --> 04:44:24.934
So, if we were talking larger amounts of

04:44:24.958 --> 04:44:26.854
of money that we're likely to have lost,

04:44:26.878 --> 04:44:28.854
it may be worthwhile. I think for the

04:44:28.878 --> 04:44:31.496
amount of you know5 odd thousand dollars

04:44:31.520 --> 04:44:33.976
we still may not a lot of people um and

04:44:34.000 --> 04:44:35.496
then it may not have an administrative

04:44:35.520 --> 04:44:38.520
cost but I yeah I' question whether it

04:44:38.958 --> 04:44:40.296
is worth it for that sort of

04:44:40.320 --> 04:44:42.854
is there a lifeguard ratio it's got to

04:44:42.878 --> 04:44:45.096
be x lifeguards per pool users or

04:44:45.120 --> 04:44:45.336
something

04:44:45.360 --> 04:44:46.694
it's per pool

04:44:46.718 --> 04:44:48.774
lifeguards per pool

04:44:48.798 --> 04:44:51.096
black wall sorry let me rephrase that

04:44:51.120 --> 04:44:53.496
it's not if there's 50 kids sorry will

04:44:53.520 --> 04:44:56.520
you answer properly

04:44:57.280 --> 04:44:59.416
looking at bus

04:44:59.440 --> 04:45:02.440
three years. There's a ratio how you

04:45:02.480 --> 04:45:04.136
calculate the amount of lifeguards to

04:45:04.160 --> 04:45:05.656
the number of swimmers.

04:45:05.680 --> 04:45:06.136
It is.

04:45:06.160 --> 04:45:07.016
Yeah, there is a ratio.

04:45:07.040 --> 04:45:09.176
So, how do we deal with 100 swimmers

04:45:09.200 --> 04:45:11.656
turning up when the traditional is 10?

04:45:11.680 --> 04:45:13.096
Look at me.

04:45:13.120 --> 04:45:16.120
Yeah. Um I I can't say an exact answer.

04:45:17.680 --> 04:45:19.256
I can tell you that because I've looked

04:45:19.280 --> 04:45:21.016
at where other councils have gone to

04:45:21.040 --> 04:45:22.774
free swimming because it often comes

04:45:22.798 --> 04:45:24.934
around that make the pools free because

04:45:24.958 --> 04:45:27.576
we'll get more usage. um those pools

04:45:27.600 --> 04:45:29.896
have reported they do have an increase

04:45:29.920 --> 04:45:31.656
but it's they've never reported that

04:45:31.680 --> 04:45:32.774
they've got to the point where they've

04:45:32.798 --> 04:45:35.416
had those massive changes so it's

04:45:35.440 --> 04:45:37.336
unlikely that we would have

04:45:37.360 --> 04:45:40.296
a substantial enough change to those

04:45:40.320 --> 04:45:42.934
rules

04:45:42.958 --> 04:45:45.958
I'd like to propose changed motion

04:45:48.480 --> 04:45:50.694
so the issue that I'm aware of from the

04:45:50.718 --> 04:45:53.718
schools is not only travel to the

04:45:54.400 --> 04:45:56.934
carnivals it's travel to swimming

04:45:56.958 --> 04:45:58.934
lessons

04:45:58.958 --> 04:46:01.416
um which are often done you know weekly

04:46:01.440 --> 04:46:04.376
or every two weeks. So I would suggest

04:46:04.400 --> 04:46:07.400
that um that we provide um not pre-

04:46:09.840 --> 04:46:12.840
entry for those kids going to

04:46:13.440 --> 04:46:15.736
swimming lessons or the pools but we

04:46:15.760 --> 04:46:18.760
provide support for buses. Um but that

04:46:20.400 --> 04:46:22.376
would not only be for carnivals, it

04:46:22.400 --> 04:46:25.400
would be for swimming lessons as well.

04:46:26.400 --> 04:46:28.614
So the kids from Brebo when my kids went

04:46:28.638 --> 04:46:30.854
there would come to Kuma for swimming

04:46:30.878 --> 04:46:33.878
lessons. Now they'll have to go to Baral

04:46:34.080 --> 04:46:36.216
for their swimming.

04:46:36.240 --> 04:46:39.240
I think it would be fair to um provide

04:46:41.200 --> 04:46:42.614
for swimming lessons also.

04:46:42.638 --> 04:46:44.614
Yeah. For swimming well that's the main

04:46:44.638 --> 04:46:45.976
assuming most kids don't

04:46:46.000 --> 04:46:47.256
well most of their swimming lessons that

04:46:47.280 --> 04:46:49.336
in Kuma already done last term and they

04:46:49.360 --> 04:46:50.136
pay.

04:46:50.160 --> 04:46:53.160
Yeah. Yeah. I don't think student I

04:46:53.200 --> 04:46:54.456
think

04:46:54.480 --> 04:46:55.976
um

04:46:56.000 --> 04:46:59.000
because and I I would I would be happy

04:46:59.040 --> 04:47:01.656
to accept that amendment because a I

04:47:01.680 --> 04:47:03.096
think most of schools have already done

04:47:03.120 --> 04:47:05.576
their swimming lessons but also because

04:47:05.600 --> 04:47:07.896
it's a requirement that the kids have to

04:47:07.920 --> 04:47:09.416
have had their swimming lessons and be

04:47:09.440 --> 04:47:11.656
assessed for their swimming competency

04:47:11.680 --> 04:47:13.496
before they can participate in the

04:47:13.520 --> 04:47:15.496
carnival. So,

04:47:15.520 --> 04:47:17.496
I think it's a low risk because I think

04:47:17.520 --> 04:47:19.416
most of them have they've been done, but

04:47:19.440 --> 04:47:20.854
I think it would be good to put it in

04:47:20.878 --> 04:47:23.878
there in case that they haven't because

04:47:24.638 --> 04:47:25.896
they might not be able to do their

04:47:25.920 --> 04:47:27.496
carnival if they haven't had their

04:47:27.520 --> 04:47:28.614
assessment.

04:47:28.638 --> 04:47:31.638
Just if

04:47:33.520 --> 04:47:35.976
Why isn't the gingerbine pool included

04:47:36.000 --> 04:47:37.976
for those kids to go to?

04:47:38.000 --> 04:47:40.456
Because I did think about the gingerbine

04:47:40.480 --> 04:47:42.296
pool, but because it's an indoor heated

04:47:42.320 --> 04:47:42.854
pool.

04:47:42.878 --> 04:47:44.536
Exactly. I thought that you know

04:47:44.560 --> 04:47:46.136
those kids aren't used to that. That'll

04:47:46.160 --> 04:47:48.216
be lovely. It'll be a lovely for

04:47:48.240 --> 04:47:51.240
and they can come into

04:47:51.440 --> 04:47:53.896
that and give them free bus travel up

04:47:53.920 --> 04:47:54.456
there too

04:47:54.480 --> 04:47:56.694
and they can come into  the Baron and

04:47:56.718 --> 04:47:58.296
get free entrance.

04:47:58.320 --> 04:47:59.256
Well, I can't why

04:47:59.280 --> 04:48:02.216
if you want everyone

04:48:02.240 --> 04:48:04.536
that

04:48:04.560 --> 04:48:06.216
No, no, no, no. I I don't think that's

04:48:06.240 --> 04:48:07.496
the reason. I just thought it was the

04:48:07.520 --> 04:48:09.656
outdoor pools. Counselor St. I did not

04:48:09.680 --> 04:48:10.216
expect

04:48:10.240 --> 04:48:12.056
give the kids a treat if they're going

04:48:12.080 --> 04:48:15.080
to travel from Bombala and Deli at

04:48:16.400 --> 04:48:18.376
let them go to Ginder if they want to

04:48:18.400 --> 04:48:20.216
and get a free entry into there for a

04:48:20.240 --> 04:48:22.376
heated pool. They're not used to that

04:48:22.400 --> 04:48:24.614
luxury will be great for them.

04:48:24.638 --> 04:48:27.416
Watch out if they want one.

04:48:27.440 --> 04:48:29.096
I know I think I have to. I don't have

04:48:29.120 --> 04:48:30.614
the figures of how much it will cost for

04:48:30.638 --> 04:48:33.638
the the gingerbine. Um

04:48:34.000 --> 04:48:37.000
I wouldn't like

04:48:37.280 --> 04:48:39.176
free entry to gender.

04:48:39.200 --> 04:48:40.376
I feel it's going to cost you a lot of

04:48:40.400 --> 04:48:42.296
money to get

04:48:42.320 --> 04:48:43.736
to put a bus under.

04:48:43.760 --> 04:48:46.760
Mr. M just may I've also received a

04:48:46.798 --> 04:48:48.614
message from a member of community who

04:48:48.638 --> 04:48:49.736
must be watching.

04:48:49.760 --> 04:48:50.456
Mhm.

04:48:50.480 --> 04:48:53.480
Um who was um asked a question around

04:48:54.320 --> 04:48:57.320
the swimming club which I understand

04:48:57.600 --> 04:49:00.056
must be kids training.

04:49:00.080 --> 04:49:01.096
Yeah.

04:49:01.120 --> 04:49:04.120
um what we could do for them as well.

04:49:08.480 --> 04:49:10.136
They'll get free entrance.

04:49:10.160 --> 04:49:12.456
I'll only I'll only support the free

04:49:12.480 --> 04:49:14.056
entrance if they get get a crack of

04:49:14.080 --> 04:49:15.976
gingerborn. Give the kids a drink, too.

04:49:16.000 --> 04:49:18.376
However, we have Olympic silver

04:49:18.400 --> 04:49:19.416
medalist.

04:49:19.440 --> 04:49:20.934
I don't care what you got there.

04:49:20.958 --> 04:49:22.694
Well,

04:49:22.718 --> 04:49:25.576
yeah. They'll give them free up there

04:49:25.600 --> 04:49:28.376
and they'll get a heap. Bar pool's a

04:49:28.400 --> 04:49:31.176
very cold pool. Let's give them a treat.

04:49:31.200 --> 04:49:33.016
When they travel and if they want to

04:49:33.040 --> 04:49:35.416
travel the exhibition to Gingerbine,

04:49:35.440 --> 04:49:37.336
give them a treat.

04:49:37.360 --> 04:49:40.360
I'll just see how much we've cost in

04:49:40.560 --> 04:49:42.056
my area. Not

04:49:42.080 --> 04:49:43.656
used to that down our way.

04:49:43.680 --> 04:49:46.680
Not used to it anywhere but Ginderine

04:49:48.320 --> 04:49:49.816
waste a lot of time. I'll get you the

04:49:49.840 --> 04:49:52.840
answer to that. I'll get you the answer.

04:49:54.878 --> 04:49:57.096
I didn't know this until I 30 seconds

04:49:57.120 --> 04:50:00.120
ago. There's a private wouldn't like

04:50:00.240 --> 04:50:03.240
Migal

04:50:04.878 --> 04:50:07.878
building get up there. I'll be happy to

04:50:08.320 --> 04:50:11.320
explain

04:50:14.000 --> 04:50:15.976
counselors, we're still in a meeting. I

04:50:16.000 --> 04:50:17.096
just want to get the answer to councelor

04:50:17.120 --> 04:50:18.136
Stewart how much that's going to cost

04:50:18.160 --> 04:50:19.896
and council happy to add that. Look, I'm

04:50:19.920 --> 04:50:21.336
happy to open pools up for free to be

04:50:21.360 --> 04:50:22.854
honest with you, but I just thought

04:50:22.878 --> 04:50:25.878
outdoor. It's like for like

04:50:29.360 --> 04:50:30.774
Is there anyone else like to debate on

04:50:30.798 --> 04:50:31.816
this?

04:50:31.840 --> 04:50:33.256
I just want a quick

04:50:33.280 --> 04:50:34.376
Yes, go for it. Council

04:50:34.400 --> 04:50:36.056
just wanted to have a quick floor to

04:50:36.080 --> 04:50:39.080
assuage some of councelor um Stewart's

04:50:39.360 --> 04:50:42.360
concerns. I agree with him the fiscal

04:50:43.040 --> 04:50:44.536
the physical discipline is very very

04:50:44.560 --> 04:50:46.854
important but in this case I think we

04:50:46.878 --> 04:50:49.256
have a problem that we need to have some

04:50:49.280 --> 04:50:51.976
rearation for the plus side is the more

04:50:52.000 --> 04:50:53.976
kids that get into pools the fitter they

04:50:54.000 --> 04:50:56.216
are the less the less the less they're

04:50:56.240 --> 04:50:58.136
on submarines and the less they can

04:50:58.160 --> 04:51:00.216
learn horrible stuff. So I think fitness

04:51:00.240 --> 04:51:01.976
and putting those kids out and it's

04:51:02.000 --> 04:51:03.656
going to be really hot summer too. So I

04:51:03.680 --> 04:51:06.680
am setting aside my fiscal rectitude.

04:51:07.200 --> 04:51:10.200
So yes summer is setting aside her

04:51:10.878 --> 04:51:13.878
fiscal whatever she said. Yeah.

04:51:16.160 --> 04:51:19.096
As long as they got places. Give them a

04:51:19.120 --> 04:51:20.536
crack at that if they want to go for a

04:51:20.560 --> 04:51:22.536
drive.

04:51:22.560 --> 04:51:25.560
No charge. Give them a treat.

04:51:26.560 --> 04:51:28.774
It's extremely a lot more than gin pool.

04:51:28.798 --> 04:51:31.798
Yeah. Don't go there.

04:51:32.160 --> 04:51:34.614
Oh jeez.

04:51:34.638 --> 04:51:36.854
Very

04:51:36.878 --> 04:51:39.176
months that we

04:51:39.200 --> 04:51:40.376
got heating problems.

04:51:40.400 --> 04:51:43.400
No, it's warm. You're using gas.

04:51:44.080 --> 04:51:46.296
Yeah. $80,000 worth.

04:51:46.320 --> 04:51:49.256
It'll be more now.

04:51:49.280 --> 04:51:52.056
It'll heat it up. People need the gases

04:51:52.080 --> 04:51:54.536
out. Average is that we income for

04:51:54.560 --> 04:51:57.560
Ginderbine's $12,000 for the month

04:52:00.878 --> 04:52:03.256
to put his Christmas. Yeah. No, give it

04:52:03.280 --> 04:52:03.496
back.

04:52:03.520 --> 04:52:04.934
So, I'm I'm going to say no to that.

04:52:04.958 --> 04:52:06.854
Councelor Stewart. Sorry.

04:52:06.878 --> 04:52:09.176
Come to bear it out.

04:52:09.200 --> 04:52:10.774
All right.

04:52:10.798 --> 04:52:13.416
Any further debate? Councelor Reie,

04:52:13.440 --> 04:52:16.296
I oppose this motion, Mr.

04:52:16.320 --> 04:52:19.320
on the grounds that  it is a  it is

04:52:19.600 --> 04:52:22.056
a relaxation of our fiscal discipline

04:52:22.080 --> 04:52:23.656
and under our performance improvement

04:52:23.680 --> 04:52:26.680
order. We're not meant to be doing this.

04:52:27.120 --> 04:52:29.096
I think as a general principle, we

04:52:29.120 --> 04:52:31.496
should be charging full cost

04:52:31.520 --> 04:52:33.496
 for all services that we provide.

04:52:33.520 --> 04:52:34.934
Otherwise, we're just going to keep on

04:52:34.958 --> 04:52:37.176
going backwards. Now, this is going to

04:52:37.200 --> 04:52:40.136
cost a lot more than you anticipate.

04:52:40.160 --> 04:52:42.056
You've got buses flying all over the

04:52:42.080 --> 04:52:45.016
region. We even got a proposal to bring

04:52:45.040 --> 04:52:47.176
people down from breadboat or even

04:52:47.200 --> 04:52:49.976
Michelago. You got no idea how far that

04:52:50.000 --> 04:52:53.000
is, Mr. Bear, but I do. And it's going

04:52:53.120 --> 04:52:56.056
to cost you a lot of money. Now,  it

04:52:56.080 --> 04:52:58.774
it's inequitable. It treats different 

04:52:58.798 --> 04:53:01.256
parts of our region differently. I mean,

04:53:01.280 --> 04:53:03.816
why  why are the people of Ginderbine

04:53:03.840 --> 04:53:06.614
a privileged community?  and I think

04:53:06.638 --> 04:53:08.456
Castle Sh's got a good point there. Why

04:53:08.480 --> 04:53:11.176
not pass all of our kids to Ginder?

04:53:11.200 --> 04:53:14.200
enjoy a bit of comfort.

04:53:19.360 --> 04:53:21.016
And look, , this is going to be

04:53:21.040 --> 04:53:23.016
administratively complex.

04:53:23.040 --> 04:53:25.576
, staff are going to be on the phones,

04:53:25.600 --> 04:53:28.376
you know, trying to line up bus services

04:53:28.400 --> 04:53:30.216
from all over the region, from as far a

04:53:30.240 --> 04:53:32.614
field asgo, which some of you couldn't

04:53:32.638 --> 04:53:35.638
find on a map to take kids up to Adam.

04:53:36.958 --> 04:53:39.176
That's a fair hike, isn't it?

04:53:39.200 --> 04:53:40.694
Fair actually. probably go.

04:53:40.718 --> 04:53:43.718
So look,  it it's bad policy.  it's

04:53:43.760 --> 04:53:45.736
an unwelcome relaxation of fiscal

04:53:45.760 --> 04:53:48.296
discipline. It moves us away from the

04:53:48.320 --> 04:53:51.096
good principle of full cost recovery for

04:53:51.120 --> 04:53:53.816
all service we provide and it is

04:53:53.840 --> 04:53:56.376
basically inequitable as also as

04:53:56.400 --> 04:53:57.656
councelor Stewart points out

04:53:57.680 --> 04:53:59.256
unnecessary.

04:53:59.280 --> 04:54:01.656
I mean these  pools are going to be 

04:54:01.680 --> 04:54:04.376
vastly upgraded and improved and all

04:54:04.400 --> 04:54:05.976
we're asking people to do is wait a

04:54:06.000 --> 04:54:07.736
couple of months and they'll be able to

04:54:07.760 --> 04:54:10.136
enjoy  the the improvements that this

04:54:10.160 --> 04:54:12.136
money is going to deliver. But look,

04:54:12.160 --> 04:54:14.456
it's  I think it's an unwelcome

04:54:14.480 --> 04:54:17.480
distraction  from our  pursuit of

04:54:18.000 --> 04:54:19.976
fiscal discipline. Let's not 

04:54:20.000 --> 04:54:22.376
establish any precedence by offering

04:54:22.400 --> 04:54:24.774
freebies which are not needed at all.

04:54:24.798 --> 04:54:26.456
Thank you.

04:54:26.480 --> 04:54:27.336
Councelor Summits

04:54:27.360 --> 04:54:29.896
question. Could you consider buying it

04:54:29.920 --> 04:54:31.256
at

04:54:31.280 --> 04:54:34.280
the expenditure? So not more than X

04:54:35.200 --> 04:54:38.200
for the buses for the whole 15.

04:54:38.958 --> 04:54:40.854
Well, I can't I can't put a cap on it

04:54:40.878 --> 04:54:42.136
because then you know

04:54:42.160 --> 04:54:43.176
it needs to be monitored because

04:54:43.200 --> 04:54:44.614
it needs to be monitored. But I I do

04:54:44.638 --> 04:54:46.376
take that point pretty clear but I don't

04:54:46.400 --> 04:54:47.816
think I can put a cap on it because then

04:54:47.840 --> 04:54:50.774
what do you you know turn kids away?

04:54:50.798 --> 04:54:53.416
Yeah. Um, and I and I just to clarify

04:54:53.440 --> 04:54:55.816
one thing. I I think Miklego when I

04:54:55.840 --> 04:54:56.934
spoke to them and I could be wrong, but

04:54:56.958 --> 04:54:58.614
I don't know if Do your kids go to Lego?

04:54:58.638 --> 04:54:59.736
They're done. So, they wouldn't even

04:54:59.760 --> 04:55:01.656
need this service

04:55:01.680 --> 04:55:03.336
anyway. They use CRA pool.

04:55:03.360 --> 04:55:04.614
Yeah. So, they wouldn't even be included

04:55:04.638 --> 04:55:06.136
because they often do a small school

04:55:06.160 --> 04:55:08.694
thing with captain's flat who they have

04:55:08.718 --> 04:55:11.718
their own pool at that school.

04:55:12.320 --> 04:55:15.320
A couple quick questions. Um,

04:55:15.680 --> 04:55:17.576
we do clarifications or we don't do

04:55:17.600 --> 04:55:18.216
clarifications.

04:55:18.240 --> 04:55:20.376
We don't do clarifications. I I can

04:55:20.400 --> 04:55:23.016
Well, I'm just put question.

04:55:23.040 --> 04:55:24.536
It says in the background, I've asked

04:55:24.560 --> 04:55:26.216
the CEO to prepare a briefing on the

04:55:26.240 --> 04:55:26.694
issues.

04:55:26.718 --> 04:55:27.976
Yeah, I see that. Yeah,

04:55:28.000 --> 04:55:28.614
we didn't get that.

04:55:28.638 --> 04:55:31.638
No,

04:55:33.040 --> 04:55:33.736
I put them.

04:55:33.760 --> 04:55:36.760
Sorry, we do have it.

04:55:37.440 --> 04:55:40.440
Just sitting there quietly through

04:55:42.480 --> 04:55:44.376
see what this information is, please.

04:55:44.400 --> 04:55:45.896
Sure.

04:55:45.920 --> 04:55:48.056
Sorry, Tony.

04:55:48.080 --> 04:55:50.216
Still awake.

04:55:50.240 --> 04:55:51.096
Okay. So,

04:55:51.120 --> 04:55:54.120
some more chocolates for Tony.

04:55:54.878 --> 04:55:57.496
Um, I just go through I'll just read

04:55:57.520 --> 04:55:59.736
from Ben for you. Um, so construction on

04:55:59.760 --> 04:56:01.576
the Bombala pool commenced on the 19th

04:56:01.600 --> 04:56:03.576
of May, followed by the current pool

04:56:03.600 --> 04:56:06.296
starting on the 17th of July. Both

04:56:06.320 --> 04:56:08.056
projects are now tracking to a revised

04:56:08.080 --> 04:56:09.896
construction completion time frame due

04:56:09.920 --> 04:56:11.496
to a range of delays encountered

04:56:11.520 --> 04:56:13.816
throughout the delivery. These delays

04:56:13.840 --> 04:56:15.656
relate to procurement challenges,

04:56:15.680 --> 04:56:17.176
construction approvals, latent

04:56:17.200 --> 04:56:18.934
conditions, delivery of critical plant

04:56:18.958 --> 04:56:21.816
equipment and contractable delays.

04:56:21.840 --> 04:56:23.336
At this stage, council is unable to

04:56:23.360 --> 04:56:25.416
confirm a revised completion date and is

04:56:25.440 --> 04:56:27.256
awaiting updated delivery time frames

04:56:27.280 --> 04:56:29.496
for critical components. Council will

04:56:29.520 --> 04:56:31.656
provide further advice as soon as

04:56:31.680 --> 04:56:33.496
confirmed information comes available.

04:56:33.520 --> 04:56:36.520
Okay. At the time of writing, I can

04:56:36.560 --> 04:56:39.016
update that now a little bit. We are

04:56:39.040 --> 04:56:41.736
targeting a day prior to Australia Day

04:56:41.760 --> 04:56:43.656
for both pools.

04:56:43.680 --> 04:56:46.680
Well,

04:56:48.798 --> 04:56:49.896
thank you. I will

04:56:49.920 --> 04:56:51.656
hang on. Are we 100% on that?

04:56:51.680 --> 04:56:53.256
Not we're not 100% on that. But that's

04:56:53.280 --> 04:56:55.656
that is that is the date we are pushing

04:56:55.680 --> 04:56:57.336
forward.

04:56:57.360 --> 04:56:58.376
Couple of weeks.

04:56:58.400 --> 04:56:59.256
Good time.

04:56:59.280 --> 04:57:00.376
We believe Should we believe that?

04:57:00.400 --> 04:57:01.736
Really? Because I don't believe that.

04:57:01.760 --> 04:57:04.376
We believe that could be cheap. Councils

04:57:04.400 --> 04:57:05.816
provide monthly updates to the community

04:57:05.840 --> 04:57:07.656
via social media to communicate the

04:57:07.680 --> 04:57:09.896
progress of the projects and have also

04:57:09.920 --> 04:57:11.896
communicated the delay to completion to

04:57:11.920 --> 04:57:14.920
the affected schools in KMA Adam Bombala

04:57:15.520 --> 04:57:17.416
and delegate in relation to the school

04:57:17.440 --> 04:57:19.416
carnival program be held in early

04:57:19.440 --> 04:57:20.854
February.

04:57:20.878 --> 04:57:23.176
Um now when we spoke to the schools the

04:57:23.200 --> 04:57:24.216
schools were fine with the fact that

04:57:24.240 --> 04:57:25.976
they put in their contingency plans most

04:57:26.000 --> 04:57:28.056
of them were already booked in alternate

04:57:28.080 --> 04:57:30.854
locations for their school carnivals.

04:57:30.878 --> 04:57:31.416
,

04:57:31.440 --> 04:57:33.896
sorry. When Yeah. As long as their buses

04:57:33.920 --> 04:57:35.096
are covered, they're not going to be

04:57:35.120 --> 04:57:37.416
able to afford it or the the parents are

04:57:37.440 --> 04:57:38.774
going to have to pay for all that extra

04:57:38.798 --> 04:57:40.854
buses. We were in the room.

04:57:40.878 --> 04:57:43.016
They haven't communicated that in the

04:57:43.040 --> 04:57:44.774
last week when we've been speaking to

04:57:44.798 --> 04:57:44.934
them.

04:57:44.958 --> 04:57:46.296
Were you in that room when they were all

04:57:46.320 --> 04:57:46.774
here?

04:57:46.798 --> 04:57:47.336
No.

04:57:47.360 --> 04:57:47.976
Okay.

04:57:48.000 --> 04:57:49.416
And we've rang them individually in the

04:57:49.440 --> 04:57:50.614
last couple of days.

04:57:50.638 --> 04:57:52.694
I spoke to one in the last two days and

04:57:52.718 --> 04:57:53.416
it's an issue.

04:57:53.440 --> 04:57:53.816
Yeah. So,

04:57:53.840 --> 04:57:55.096
yeah, it's an issue.

04:57:55.120 --> 04:57:58.120
Um, so the following issues details

04:57:58.560 --> 04:58:01.016
pertain to both pools. So procurement

04:58:01.040 --> 04:58:03.016
procurement of the contractor for each

04:58:03.040 --> 04:58:04.934
pool project was delayed as a result of

04:58:04.958 --> 04:58:06.694
extended negotiations with prime

04:58:06.718 --> 04:58:09.718
contractor. These projected projected

04:58:09.760 --> 04:58:12.216
protracted negotiations were undertaken

04:58:12.240 --> 04:58:13.576
to ensure the pool upgrades were

04:58:13.600 --> 04:58:15.576
affordable for the project to progress.

04:58:15.600 --> 04:58:17.336
The negotiations took approximately one

04:58:17.360 --> 04:58:19.176
month to complete which involved

04:58:19.200 --> 04:58:21.656
material selection, scope reduction,

04:58:21.680 --> 04:58:24.680
redesign, specification and interoper

04:58:25.040 --> 04:58:27.336
operatability between the plant

04:58:27.360 --> 04:58:29.736
equipment and pool structures.

04:58:29.760 --> 04:58:32.056
If these elements were not negotiated,

04:58:32.080 --> 04:58:33.736
the pool projects were not feasible to

04:58:33.760 --> 04:58:35.416
progress. Basically, we didn't have

04:58:35.440 --> 04:58:38.136
enough money. As a further mitigation,

04:58:38.160 --> 04:58:40.694
council chose not to progress with a

04:58:40.718 --> 04:58:43.416
contracted pool  project major and as

04:58:43.440 --> 04:58:45.576
a result  as a result of the

04:58:45.600 --> 04:58:47.256
substandard scope creep during the

04:58:47.280 --> 04:58:49.656
design process. So, we decided to

04:58:49.680 --> 04:58:51.816
deliver it inhouse.

04:58:51.840 --> 04:58:54.456
 construction employable delays to the

04:58:54.480 --> 04:58:55.976
commencement of construction were

04:58:56.000 --> 04:58:58.376
experienced as a result of a protracted

04:58:58.400 --> 04:59:01.176
construction certificate which also had

04:59:01.200 --> 04:59:03.336
to be amended following the negotiation

04:59:03.360 --> 04:59:05.416
outcomes. This took approximately

04:59:05.440 --> 04:59:07.496
another month to complete through an

04:59:07.520 --> 04:59:09.416
independent to council approval

04:59:09.440 --> 04:59:12.440
authority.

04:59:12.878 --> 04:59:15.016
Laten conditions. Once construction

04:59:15.040 --> 04:59:16.774
commenced, latent conditions were

04:59:16.798 --> 04:59:18.774
experienced and resulted in substantial

04:59:18.798 --> 04:59:21.176
voids surrounding both Kuma and Bombala

04:59:21.200 --> 04:59:23.416
pools. The voids experienced were

04:59:23.440 --> 04:59:25.256
substantial and for the case of Bombala

04:59:25.280 --> 04:59:26.774
extended the full length of one side of

04:59:26.798 --> 04:59:28.934
the pool. So basically underneath your

04:59:28.958 --> 04:59:31.256
concrete concourse around the pool was

04:59:31.280 --> 04:59:33.016
all hollow

04:59:33.040 --> 04:59:35.416
and badly hollow.

04:59:35.440 --> 04:59:37.016
Where did it go? Well, that's

04:59:37.040 --> 04:59:39.096
through pipe. Well, these bulls are

04:59:39.120 --> 04:59:41.816
quite old through piping failure over

04:59:41.840 --> 04:59:43.816
many, many years.

04:59:43.840 --> 04:59:45.896
It's basically just eroded out through

04:59:45.920 --> 04:59:47.416
piping f.

04:59:47.440 --> 04:59:48.056
Yeah.

04:59:48.080 --> 04:59:49.896
Where did it go after it?

04:59:49.920 --> 04:59:50.934
It was checked

04:59:50.958 --> 04:59:53.256
gone through the drainage systems and I

04:59:53.280 --> 04:59:56.280
suppose on its way to the river

04:59:56.878 --> 04:59:59.016
pretty much and come up down in through

04:59:59.040 --> 05:00:01.656
the drain systems to the creek.

05:00:01.680 --> 05:00:04.680
Yeah. Um so as the voids were under the

05:00:06.080 --> 05:00:08.056
concrete concourse and no geotechnical

05:00:08.080 --> 05:00:09.896
investigations were undertaken during

05:00:09.920 --> 05:00:12.536
design supporting the decision not to

05:00:12.560 --> 05:00:14.854
progress with contracted manager you

05:00:14.878 --> 05:00:17.878
know was fairly was sounded out. 

05:00:18.798 --> 05:00:21.798
delivery of plant equipment. Two issues

05:00:21.920 --> 05:00:23.496
um

05:00:23.520 --> 05:00:25.816
two issues continue to be experienced.

05:00:25.840 --> 05:00:27.416
The delivery of key planting equipment

05:00:27.440 --> 05:00:29.576
relating to the pool infrastructure pool

05:00:29.600 --> 05:00:31.416
pump pool pumps that were delivered by

05:00:31.440 --> 05:00:33.176
the manufacturer were over and above the

05:00:33.200 --> 05:00:36.056
specification designed and purchased.

05:00:36.080 --> 05:00:37.576
Although this would seem beneficial to

05:00:37.600 --> 05:00:39.176
council, the pressures that the oversp

05:00:39.200 --> 05:00:41.096
specified pumps would provide would put

05:00:41.120 --> 05:00:42.774
at risk the hydraulic infrastructure.

05:00:42.798 --> 05:00:45.798
basically just blow out the pipes um and

05:00:45.840 --> 05:00:47.416
also increase operational power

05:00:47.440 --> 05:00:50.056
expenses. The pumps were subsequently

05:00:50.080 --> 05:00:52.774
returned and the pools have the correct

05:00:52.798 --> 05:00:55.256
specified pumps as per the design now.

05:00:55.280 --> 05:00:56.376
So they've been delivered.

05:00:56.400 --> 05:00:57.336
Oh, they have been delivered.

05:00:57.360 --> 05:00:58.614
They have the pumps have been delivered.

05:00:58.638 --> 05:00:59.896
I thought they were leaving China on the

05:00:59.920 --> 05:01:02.136
18th of December. That was

05:01:02.160 --> 05:01:05.160
No, the pumps are here. The filtration

05:01:05.200 --> 05:01:06.854
system was purchased from China and was

05:01:06.878 --> 05:01:09.096
manufactured at order. The delays

05:01:09.120 --> 05:01:10.934
experienced by the project are as a

05:01:10.958 --> 05:01:13.416
result of late ordering and delays to

05:01:13.440 --> 05:01:15.096
manufacturing despite council providing

05:01:15.120 --> 05:01:17.416
the contractor early cash flow to

05:01:17.440 --> 05:01:19.576
purchase the long lead time items in

05:01:19.600 --> 05:01:22.376
August. Filtration system was not

05:01:22.400 --> 05:01:25.096
ordered until mid November. Further,

05:01:25.120 --> 05:01:27.736
there was confu confusion by the pro

05:01:27.760 --> 05:01:29.576
confusion

05:01:29.600 --> 05:01:32.376
from up like we were confused as to

05:01:32.400 --> 05:01:34.536
which shipping container contained what

05:01:34.560 --> 05:01:36.296
plant and equipment from the

05:01:36.320 --> 05:01:38.376
manufacturer in China.

05:01:38.400 --> 05:01:41.016
And the assumed customs clearance

05:01:41.040 --> 05:01:43.496
process delay pertaining to a particular

05:01:43.520 --> 05:01:45.496
shipping container was not the one

05:01:45.520 --> 05:01:47.016
controlling the fil not the one that

05:01:47.040 --> 05:01:49.016
contained the filtration system

05:01:49.040 --> 05:01:51.416
contained other components. The project

05:01:51.440 --> 05:01:53.016
is still awaiting the filtration system

05:01:53.040 --> 05:01:54.854
to be delivered.

05:01:54.878 --> 05:01:57.878
Contractor delay further to add to the

05:01:57.920 --> 05:01:59.496
overall delay of the project the

05:01:59.520 --> 05:02:00.934
contractor is slipped in construction

05:02:00.958 --> 05:02:03.416
program by approximately two weeks. As a

05:02:03.440 --> 05:02:05.016
result of the slip council are working

05:02:05.040 --> 05:02:07.576
with the contractor to compress

05:02:07.600 --> 05:02:09.496
sequential activities at both sites to

05:02:09.520 --> 05:02:11.096
minimize any further delay. I can say

05:02:11.120 --> 05:02:14.120
we've had some very dramatic um

05:02:14.320 --> 05:02:16.614
turnaround in

05:02:16.638 --> 05:02:19.638
what would you call it? Um

05:02:20.958 --> 05:02:22.774
concreting concerter.

05:02:22.798 --> 05:02:24.694
No no no

05:02:24.718 --> 05:02:27.416
change of attitude from the contractor.

05:02:27.440 --> 05:02:30.440
Um, now it is $600 a day per site

05:02:30.798 --> 05:02:33.496
liquidated damages. They are under no

05:02:33.520 --> 05:02:35.736
illusion that we are going to hit them

05:02:35.760 --> 05:02:38.760
with that. Um, but also we've sat down

05:02:40.000 --> 05:02:43.000
with them and we've sat beside them and

05:02:43.120 --> 05:02:45.816
reworked their programs so that we can

05:02:45.840 --> 05:02:48.840
get concurrent works done a lot more

05:02:49.200 --> 05:02:52.200
efficiently. So we hope to have clawed

05:02:52.560 --> 05:02:55.560
back that gap now. So, can I ask last

05:02:56.000 --> 05:02:58.136
week when you met with counselors on the

05:02:58.160 --> 05:03:01.160
meeting, there was 50% of the

05:03:01.440 --> 05:03:01.896
Yeah.

05:03:01.920 --> 05:03:02.694
chance.

05:03:02.718 --> 05:03:04.694
Y um

05:03:04.718 --> 05:03:07.016
I'm now I'm now I'm going to put me neck

05:03:07.040 --> 05:03:10.040
on the line here a bit. I'm now saying

05:03:10.080 --> 05:03:13.080
we are pushing hard for a pre Australia

05:03:13.600 --> 05:03:16.600
Day delivery date.

05:03:16.878 --> 05:03:19.878
I'm fairly confident we're going to hit

05:03:19.920 --> 05:03:22.920
that. Now, if we hit that date, it's no

05:03:23.040 --> 05:03:24.376
problems with the schools.

05:03:24.400 --> 05:03:26.136
When are the when are the Philistines

05:03:26.160 --> 05:03:27.976
coming to Australia?

05:03:28.000 --> 05:03:30.136
Um, it's a tracker.

05:03:30.160 --> 05:03:33.160
Yeah, we what we thought was a con note

05:03:33.600 --> 05:03:36.536
was a lady note.

05:03:36.560 --> 05:03:37.096
Um,

05:03:37.120 --> 05:03:39.096
it's too much of a reset, I think.

05:03:39.120 --> 05:03:39.736
Anyway,

05:03:39.760 --> 05:03:41.496
so yeah, but like I say, it's going to

05:03:41.520 --> 05:03:42.376
be tight.

05:03:42.400 --> 05:03:43.416
Yeah,

05:03:43.440 --> 05:03:45.096
but

05:03:45.120 --> 05:03:47.656
we're going to push.

05:03:47.680 --> 05:03:48.934
If you haven't got if you haven't got a

05:03:48.958 --> 05:03:51.256
good news

05:03:51.280 --> 05:03:52.296
hit, if that's the case, it's not going

05:03:52.320 --> 05:03:53.576
to cost us any money really because

05:03:53.600 --> 05:03:55.576
we're you know having free for two

05:03:55.600 --> 05:03:56.854
weeks, three weeks and it's done and

05:03:56.878 --> 05:03:58.614
then there's no glasses.

05:03:58.638 --> 05:04:00.296
But my concern is if that doesn't

05:04:00.320 --> 05:04:01.096
happen,

05:04:01.120 --> 05:04:01.496
you know,

05:04:01.520 --> 05:04:04.376
it will only be up until a week or two

05:04:04.400 --> 05:04:05.496
if it doesn't happen. But

05:04:05.520 --> 05:04:06.136
yeah, but it's

05:04:06.160 --> 05:04:08.136
you've got to push.

05:04:08.160 --> 05:04:10.136
I was at the pool. Sorry, C. Sorry,

05:04:10.160 --> 05:04:13.160
Tony. I was at the pool at

05:04:13.920 --> 05:04:15.176
whenever we had that council meeting

05:04:15.200 --> 05:04:16.854
November. November's council meeting and

05:04:16.878 --> 05:04:18.694
I was told it was guaranteed and I

05:04:18.718 --> 05:04:19.816
walked around the pool and I was

05:04:19.840 --> 05:04:21.176
guaranteed it was going to be open on

05:04:21.200 --> 05:04:24.200
the 27th of or 26th of December and I

05:04:24.798 --> 05:04:25.976
was guaranteed that too.

05:04:26.000 --> 05:04:26.536
Yeah.

05:04:26.560 --> 05:04:29.336
So I I I'm sorry m point. I I

05:04:29.360 --> 05:04:31.256
understand that we're no longer talking

05:04:31.280 --> 05:04:33.416
to the local project manager. We're now

05:04:33.440 --> 05:04:35.576
talking to the head of the company.

05:04:35.600 --> 05:04:38.056
Good.

05:04:38.080 --> 05:04:40.216
Sorry. I'm happy to withdraw it knowing

05:04:40.240 --> 05:04:42.056
that but just it is a risk that um

05:04:42.080 --> 05:04:44.136
because we do not have a meeting between

05:04:44.160 --> 05:04:45.976
now and then.

05:04:46.000 --> 05:04:48.774
Can I suggest that the motion actually

05:04:48.798 --> 05:04:51.256
say as a contingency

05:04:51.280 --> 05:04:53.976
that the pool is not open before the

05:04:54.000 --> 05:04:56.694
before school goes back that this is

05:04:56.718 --> 05:04:57.416
provided

05:04:57.440 --> 05:04:59.176
that's part B

05:04:59.200 --> 05:05:01.256
before when school goes back

05:05:01.280 --> 05:05:02.456
the buses

05:05:02.480 --> 05:05:04.216
that it already says if the pools are

05:05:04.240 --> 05:05:05.736
not open so

05:05:05.760 --> 05:05:08.136
yeah cover

05:05:08.160 --> 05:05:09.896
need to do your damage because that'll

05:05:09.920 --> 05:05:12.920
happen from sort of tomorrow

05:05:13.040 --> 05:05:15.016
we're still we're still making sure that

05:05:15.040 --> 05:05:18.040
schools have a plan B in place because

05:05:18.320 --> 05:05:19.656
you know you don't go in without an

05:05:19.680 --> 05:05:22.296
alternative option.

05:05:22.320 --> 05:05:25.096
I'm happy to keep point B and and knock

05:05:25.120 --> 05:05:27.496
out point A, but it's up to councilors

05:05:27.520 --> 05:05:29.976
around the table. Council favor,

05:05:30.000 --> 05:05:32.216
can I make a point and follow it with a

05:05:32.240 --> 05:05:34.216
question? During the briefing, I asked

05:05:34.240 --> 05:05:36.536
about liquidated damages and the impact

05:05:36.560 --> 05:05:38.456
of the contracts and I was pretty much

05:05:38.480 --> 05:05:41.480
held down. We've just been advised that

05:05:41.520 --> 05:05:43.576
liquid added damages are likely to

05:05:43.600 --> 05:05:44.854
apply.

05:05:44.878 --> 05:05:47.878
Can we revisit that $600 a day

05:05:48.320 --> 05:05:50.456
liquidated damages?

05:05:50.480 --> 05:05:52.376
Because if we're going to deliver this

05:05:52.400 --> 05:05:55.400
in time, that's an unnecessary an

05:05:56.000 --> 05:05:57.656
unnecessary step when there is

05:05:57.680 --> 05:06:00.456
apparently fault on both sides. So,

05:06:00.480 --> 05:06:02.694
 that's

05:06:02.718 --> 05:06:05.016
how we have to direct our staff not to

05:06:05.040 --> 05:06:07.016
apply

05:06:07.040 --> 05:06:10.040
motion. What question? Can we modify the

05:06:10.560 --> 05:06:12.694
motion to direct the staff not to apply

05:06:12.718 --> 05:06:14.376
liquid data damages so that we know

05:06:14.400 --> 05:06:16.216
better appropriate?

05:06:16.240 --> 05:06:18.136
I won't amend.

05:06:18.160 --> 05:06:19.896
I won't turn that amendment.

05:06:19.920 --> 05:06:22.920
Um I'm happy to take off point A and

05:06:23.200 --> 05:06:26.200
then point B stay in just in case.

05:06:27.040 --> 05:06:30.040
Councilors, are we happy with that?

05:06:30.400 --> 05:06:32.536
Neither here nor there. It lets kids go

05:06:32.560 --> 05:06:35.496
swimming prisons. Yeah, I have a

05:06:35.520 --> 05:06:37.336
personally

05:06:37.360 --> 05:06:37.976
I'll put a

05:06:38.000 --> 05:06:39.976
for it to stay. It's not a big cost.

05:06:40.000 --> 05:06:41.896
Yeah. Yeah. We're talking about a few

05:06:41.920 --> 05:06:43.656
weeks apparently, so I think that's a

05:06:43.680 --> 05:06:45.976
Yep. Good cost. All right.  any

05:06:46.000 --> 05:06:49.000
further debate? I'll put the motion.

05:06:49.200 --> 05:06:50.296
Sorry.

05:06:50.320 --> 05:06:53.320
Yes. Councelor Elliot and Hopkins asked

05:06:53.440 --> 05:06:54.774
for it to stay

05:06:54.798 --> 05:06:56.216
until

05:06:56.240 --> 05:06:58.456
No, the one just over the holiday.

05:06:58.480 --> 05:07:00.216
Yeah. Sorry. Not for buses. Just

05:07:00.240 --> 05:07:01.816
it's until the pools are reopen.

05:07:01.840 --> 05:07:02.296
Okay.

05:07:02.320 --> 05:07:04.536
Yeah. They'll they'll go back to fees

05:07:04.560 --> 05:07:05.736
and charges after that.

05:07:05.760 --> 05:07:06.056
Okay.

05:07:06.080 --> 05:07:07.496
With that, I put the motion. All those

05:07:07.520 --> 05:07:09.976
in favor,

05:07:10.000 --> 05:07:13.000
councelor Higgins, Councelor,

05:07:14.240 --> 05:07:17.096
Councelor Summers, Councelor Hopkins,

05:07:17.120 --> 05:07:19.256
Councelor Elliot, Councelor Fail,

05:07:19.280 --> 05:07:22.280
Councelor Davis, Councelor

05:07:22.878 --> 05:07:24.774
Williamson, Councelor Hannah. All those

05:07:24.798 --> 05:07:27.798
against, Councelor Stewart, Councelor

05:07:28.320 --> 05:07:29.896
Rose, and Councelor Rooney.

05:07:29.920 --> 05:07:31.576
Doing that to you,

05:07:31.600 --> 05:07:33.176
Harry. Thank you councelor.

05:07:33.200 --> 05:07:35.256
It seems good manager.

05:07:35.280 --> 05:07:38.056
Now councilors, sorry councilors, it is

05:07:38.080 --> 05:07:41.080
18 6. We've still got quite a bit to go.

05:07:41.280 --> 05:07:43.256
Um I think that we defer everything

05:07:43.280 --> 05:07:45.736
else. It is can I just put who is

05:07:45.760 --> 05:07:47.416
available tomorrow because there are

05:07:47.440 --> 05:07:49.736
councils that are not available.

05:07:49.760 --> 05:07:52.216
No

05:07:52.240 --> 05:07:54.056
question is if we haven't given due

05:07:54.080 --> 05:07:56.056
notice of the meeting are we able to

05:07:56.080 --> 05:07:59.080
defer it to tomorrow?

05:08:04.240 --> 05:08:05.656
Yeah, I can adjourn it till tomorrow and

05:08:05.680 --> 05:08:07.416
that's that's absolutely fine. Yeah.

05:08:07.440 --> 05:08:10.440
Yeah. I could I suggest given

05:08:11.520 --> 05:08:14.520
um the extreme risk of the water supply

05:08:16.240 --> 05:08:19.240
that that motion be debated today before

05:08:19.600 --> 05:08:21.176
we vote. Agree.

05:08:21.200 --> 05:08:21.656
Okay.

05:08:21.680 --> 05:08:23.656
Oh yeah, that I'm happy with that. It's

05:08:23.680 --> 05:08:25.256
quick motion. I just want to clarify.

05:08:25.280 --> 05:08:27.176
Sorry, can I just get to who's who's

05:08:27.200 --> 05:08:30.136
available first tomorrow because I can't

05:08:30.160 --> 05:08:31.416
do next week because I don't have any

05:08:31.440 --> 05:08:33.416
EAs to take any notes next week. That's

05:08:33.440 --> 05:08:34.934
my problem.

05:08:34.958 --> 05:08:36.376
That's my issue. Yeah.

05:08:36.400 --> 05:08:37.896
Council,

05:08:37.920 --> 05:08:40.694
two, three, four, five, six, seven. All

05:08:40.718 --> 05:08:42.614
right, we'll have a quum.

05:08:42.638 --> 05:08:43.576
Jenny's

05:08:43.600 --> 05:08:46.600
Jenny's not here. And that's the Sorry.

05:08:47.680 --> 05:08:49.736
All right. Um, all right. Councilors,

05:08:49.760 --> 05:08:51.096
I've had a request just to get the water

05:08:51.120 --> 05:08:52.216
one of the way. Are you happy to do

05:08:52.240 --> 05:08:52.456
that?

05:08:52.480 --> 05:08:52.854
Yes.

05:08:52.878 --> 05:08:54.854
We extend it for another half an hour.

05:08:54.878 --> 05:08:56.056
We'll be meeting tomorrow.

05:08:56.080 --> 05:08:57.736
Meeting tomorrow. Oh, I'll declare that

05:08:57.760 --> 05:08:57.896
in a

05:08:57.920 --> 05:09:00.216
sec. Tomorrow.

05:09:00.240 --> 05:09:00.614
,

05:09:00.638 --> 05:09:02.614
we're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Do do that

05:09:02.638 --> 05:09:03.416
one tomorrow.

05:09:03.440 --> 05:09:05.496
Do what? Tomorrow. Hold the CF cart one

05:09:05.520 --> 05:09:07.016
over.

05:09:07.040 --> 05:09:10.040
I want you to

05:09:11.360 --> 05:09:12.934
All right, counselors. I defer

05:09:12.958 --> 05:09:14.774
everything else until tomorrow at 10:30

05:09:14.798 --> 05:09:16.216
a.m.

05:09:16.240 --> 05:09:16.934
Thank you for today.

05:09:16.958 --> 05:09:19.416
Sorry. Haven't we got a meeting at 9 or

05:09:19.440 --> 05:09:20.216
is that not on?

05:09:20.240 --> 05:09:21.656
Yes, 9.

05:09:21.680 --> 05:09:24.376
Sorry. 10:30.

05:09:24.400 --> 05:09:26.376
I proposed to zoom into that meeting so

05:09:26.400 --> 05:09:29.016
I won't be able to get for

05:09:29.040 --> 05:09:32.040
a to an hour. Of course he can. Why

05:09:32.080 --> 05:09:35.080
can't you make it 1:00 p.m.?

05:09:35.200 --> 05:09:37.736
 because I've got staff that are going

05:09:37.760 --> 05:09:40.760
on holidays and I don't have an EA to

05:09:41.040 --> 05:09:43.576
take notes minutes tomorrow afternoon.

05:09:43.600 --> 05:09:44.456
Afternoon.

05:09:44.480 --> 05:09:46.456
Yeah, they I've got staff leaving for

05:09:46.480 --> 05:09:48.536
Christmas.

05:09:48.560 --> 05:09:50.456
So I do apologize.

05:09:50.480 --> 05:09:51.336
I could do the

05:09:51.360 --> 05:09:53.176
We'll run straight off into the V

05:09:53.200 --> 05:09:54.934
straight after the presentation.

05:09:54.958 --> 05:09:56.296
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

05:09:56.320 --> 05:09:57.496
You're going to get a couple of hours.

05:09:57.520 --> 05:09:58.934
What are you going to get?

05:09:58.958 --> 05:10:01.496
One agenda item. I'd say you hold

05:10:01.520 --> 05:10:03.416
everything over to sometime in the new

05:10:03.440 --> 05:10:03.816
year.

05:10:03.840 --> 05:10:04.934
Well, the only other off Sorry,

05:10:04.958 --> 05:10:06.296
counselors, if you don't want to do it

05:10:06.320 --> 05:10:07.976
tomorrow, the only other time is

05:10:08.000 --> 05:10:09.576
probably February because I do not have

05:10:09.600 --> 05:10:12.600
the staff in January.

05:10:13.440 --> 05:10:14.934
No, we don't have any. They're on

05:10:14.958 --> 05:10:17.958
holidays.

05:10:18.320 --> 05:10:20.614
Let's let's go on for tomorrow. Yeah, we

05:10:20.638 --> 05:10:23.638
can't go into February with all the

05:10:23.760 --> 05:10:26.056
Well, if you're not

05:10:26.080 --> 05:10:28.854
to be finished by 1:30, how many you

05:10:28.878 --> 05:10:31.336
going to get through the very important?

05:10:31.360 --> 05:10:32.774
Why do we have to finish by one?

05:10:32.798 --> 05:10:34.854
We just can extend it. We can extend it

05:10:34.878 --> 05:10:35.976
tomorrow.

05:10:36.000 --> 05:10:37.576
All right. So, councilors, just hands

05:10:37.600 --> 05:10:38.934
up. Who's available tomorrow? I just

05:10:38.958 --> 05:10:41.016
need to see who is available tomorrow.

05:10:41.040 --> 05:10:41.976
One.

05:10:42.000 --> 05:10:43.016
Sorry.

05:10:43.040 --> 05:10:46.040
10:306.

05:10:46.878 --> 05:10:48.854
No, he's aren't going to come al. You

05:10:48.878 --> 05:10:50.694
can do AV.

05:10:50.718 --> 05:10:52.774
You can do AV tomorrow. Yes, you can do

05:10:52.798 --> 05:10:55.576
AV tomorrow. All day.

05:10:55.600 --> 05:10:57.256
All right. I don't You don't have to be

05:10:57.280 --> 05:10:59.096
in the room for tomorrow.

05:10:59.120 --> 05:11:02.120
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. All right. Excuse me.

05:11:04.638 --> 05:11:06.934
You need to provide written.

05:11:06.958 --> 05:11:09.958
It's just an agreement. She can't attend

05:11:11.760 --> 05:11:14.136
to

05:11:14.160 --> 05:11:16.296
run a very

05:11:16.320 --> 05:11:18.456
drop a note in tonight and say that I

05:11:18.480 --> 05:11:21.480
can't make tomorrow.

05:11:23.360 --> 05:11:24.056
Thank you.

05:11:24.080 --> 05:11:25.256
We'll be here at 9.

05:11:25.280 --> 05:11:26.934
Thank you.

05:11:26.958 --> 05:11:29.958
All right.